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Why webcams aren’t good enough

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Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#31

Post by lhnz »

chrismorgan wrote: post #19
m463 wrote: post #6

They're comparing apples and logitechs. I wouldn't be surprised if the iphone cameras have had a billion dollars of development invested in them. But a large portion of this is on the software/firmware side which logitech doesn't benefit from. That said, we all reap the benefits of this because phone camera hardware has been driven down in cost considerably since phones first got cameras. There just needs to be more…

Apple still ships bad webcams on their laptops. There seems to be a big class divide between phone cameras and webcams.

Shouldn't the rise of remote work change this?

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#32

Post by bronco21016 »

kleiba wrote: post #17

Good enough for what ? Most of the sample pics look absolutely fine to me for every day use, i.e., online meetings.

I agree. I rarely find I’m bothered by the quality of another person’s camera in video chat situations.

However, it’s significantly bothersome when people refuse to use earbuds or a headset so audio isn’t constantly clipping during conversation, or they have a massive light source behind them like a window and their face is just a shadow the whole time, or their camera is staring god knows where the whole time.

There’s a lot of low hanging fruit to up the quality of a video chat before you need to get too worried about the quality of the camera.

Obviously this is for everyday video chat. If you’re live-streaming or doing some kind of professional video presentation, then yes it’s frustrating that the market is $100 or $1,500+.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#33

Post by josephg »

llampx wrote: post #23

I also noticed fairly early on, that phone cameras were improving by leaps and bounds, while laptop webcams and USB webcams seemed to be at a standstill, image-quality wise. I don't know why that is, but even Apple would seemingly rather shave 50 cents off the BOM by speccing a 720p Facetime camera in their $3000 Macbook Pros, and trying to make up the difference with software, like with the new M1 Macs that have bet…

> even Apple would seemingly rather shave 50 cents off the BOM by speccing a 720p Facetime camera in their $3000 Macbook Pros

The reason I've heard is that the macbook display assembly simply doesn't have the depth to house a decent camera. The camera bump in phones exists for a reason - and phones are already way fatter than macbook displays.

I have no idea if thats true though.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#35

Post by cjnicholls »

timvdalen wrote: post #25

When I wasn't able to purchase a webcam (for a reasonable amount) at the beginning of the lockdown, I started using my Pixel 3 with DroidCam[1]. My video quality is consistently the best in all the meetings I'm in, so I can really recommend using your phone. I stream the video over adb myself, to make sure I don't drain the battery too much and to keep everything wired. [1]: https://www.dev47apps.com/

I can confirm this as my colleagues have mentioned the quality difference between my feed (samsung tablet) and their webcams. I used a couple different webcam apps orginially but DroidCam was the best IMO.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#36

Post by jpalomaki »

IMHO if you have decent lighting the Logitechs are ”good enough” for the usual video call purposes.

What real value would much better image quality bring? Most of the time you are just small box on other participant’s screen. Of courae totally different thing if you are producing video content.

In order of importance for me 1) Get sound right. Use headset if needed. 2) Try to get good light for your face (check on Youtube three point light setup videos to get the rough idea, then improvise). 3) Try to arrange boring and simple background.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#37

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

corysama wrote: post #15

Different article from a month ago “Why can’t you buy a good web cam?” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504771 Lots of points. Big one being that the market is bifurcated into: 1. People who just want the minimum as cheap as possible. 2. People willing to pay enough to buy a mirrorless photo camera and plug it in as a web cam when they need it.

I'd be willing to pay for a good webcam, but I'm not willing to plug something as bulky and heavy as a mirrorless camera to my monitor, let alone to my laptop. I don't think that's a weird stance to have.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#38

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

josephg wrote: post #33
llampx wrote: post #23

I also noticed fairly early on, that phone cameras were improving by leaps and bounds, while laptop webcams and USB webcams seemed to be at a standstill, image-quality wise. I don't know why that is, but even Apple would seemingly rather shave 50 cents off the BOM by speccing a 720p Facetime camera in their $3000 Macbook Pros, and trying to make up the difference with software, like with the new M1 Macs that have bet…

> even Apple would seemingly rather shave 50 cents off the BOM by speccing a 720p Facetime camera in their $3000 Macbook Pros The reason I've heard is that the macbook display assembly simply doesn't have the depth to house a decent camera. The camera bump in phones exists for a reason - and phones are already way fatter than macbook displays. I have no idea if thats true though.

On the flip side, you can get some decent cameras in the "nose up position" these days.

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#39

Post by PM_ME_YOUR_CAT »

Wasn't there a discussion about image processing because of a lack of dedicated and optimized on-camera software? Usually phones are tuned to deliver an "as close as possible to the result" viewfinder image, while webcams in general do very little or no processing on their side. I might be completely wrong here though, however I do agree with the article. It's 2021. If Thunderbolt can provide enough bandwidth to support a full-on GPU, then we can dedicate resources to do correct image processing either on our CPUs or boycott Webcam makers to actually invest some time to finetune and optimize Webcams. As the article states, it's better to buy a used iPhone 6 and buy EpocCam by Elgato to use the phone as a cam. At least it's actually good as compared to the C920 which has been price gauged to oblivion throughout the world

Re: Why webcams aren’t good enough

#40

Post by ajsnigrutin »

How big is the market for "good webcams"? If 99% of the people just need a "good enough" (to recognise your face) webcam, that they turn off after the initial "hello!" (so noone notices they have no pants on if they have to stand up), does that really make it worth it to develop new tech for the 1%?

...compared to phone cameras, where people actually want (and are willing to pay more) for a good camera, especially for one that works better in shitty lighting conditions.

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