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Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

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Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#31

Post by wyldfire »

In case you missed it: Navalny found conclusive evidence of a cover-up for his poisoning [1] [2] [3]. But the best part is how he did it: caller ID spoof + social engineering. IMO exploiting the authoritarian nature/culture was really clever. Every time Kudryavtsev demurs about revealing more details, Navalny (as Ustinov) calls him by his full name. To me, it sounds like he's threatening him or reminding him of their relative position in the hierarchy. Each time, Kudryavtsev continues to spill the beans and give up co-conspirators.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/21/world/europe/russia-naval...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibqiet6Bg38

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwvA49ZXnf8

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#32

Post by tyingq »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #12
tyingq wrote: post #10

Polonium, Dioxin, Novichok. I wonder what they use when they want to be more stealthy about it.

Polonium is actually very stealthy. It's an alpha emitter which is not detectable by most equipment, and it was very nearly not detected even by the UK government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...

Well, yes and no. Like "The traces were found in passenger jets[44][45] BA875 and BA873 from Moscow to Heathrow"

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#33

Post by lollipop90 »

kyrieeschaton wrote: post #29
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ignore the evidence outside molecular signature yes, the “Moon of Alabama” hypothesis sounds plausible. Given the facts and circumstances, however, the conclusion becomes unavoidable.

The circumstances are that an english-tweeting western-sponsored Yale World Fellow with approximately zero actual Russian support found himself "poisoned" (nonfatally, of course) in a way politically useful to the west in their ongoing project of destabilizing Russia, as diagnosed by western security services.

> with approximately zero actual Russian support

Despite the fact that the odds are stacked (media controlled by United Russia, etc...) Navalny got 27% of the vote in 2013 Moscow election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Moscow_mayoral_election#C...

That is not exactly "zero actual support". And that was before the 2018 "pension" reforms.

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#34

Post by longtimegoogler »

kyrieeschaton wrote: post #24
longtimegoogler wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that odd if you consider that Germany is a democracy and Russia is a dictatorship with a history of poisoning dissenters. Read the story about this mathematician who has been sentenced to prison for 6 years in Russia. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/01/22/imprisoned-for-his-e... At some point, we have to use some sort of priors to evaluate the truth of claims from various sources.

Security agencies of democratic regimes (that happen to be marginally accountable to the people elected) don't have the ability to synthesize known molecules and use them for political purposes? They don't have the ability to lie under the piercing eyes of lady liberty? That's sort of what they exist for. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/04/cia-director-used-fake...

That site is a shit show. Do you have a better source?

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#35

Post by dimator »

wyldfire wrote: post #31

In case you missed it: Navalny found conclusive evidence of a cover-up for his poisoning [1] [2] [3]. But the best part is how he did it: caller ID spoof + social engineering. IMO exploiting the authoritarian nature/culture was really clever. Every time Kudryavtsev demurs about revealing more details, Navalny (as Ustinov) calls him by his full name. To me, it sounds like he's threatening him or reminding him of their…

I'm amazed at the amateur nature of the guy on that call. If he's GRU/FSB trained, why would he trust a caller ID from base, and nothing else? Surely there's better opsec than this.

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#36

Post by thrwway34 »

CyanBird wrote: post #18
Clewza313 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, this is worth a read. Among many other things, the day after poisoning his body temperature was 34 deg C (!) and heart rate only 44 bpm. The poor guy was on a ventilator for 24 days , and would almost certainly have died if not mechanically ventilated within 2 hours. It's downright astonishing that he recovered as well as he did. How many people would willingly return to the lion's den where this happened to th…

> It's downright astonishing that he recovered as well as he did. Given the poor track record of what intelligence agencies have tagged as "deadliest poison ever" I am not particularly surprised, neither is MoonOfAlabama in that regard https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/09/a-curious-timestamp-in...

Guys, can you be a little bit less obvious in promoting your loon conspiracy site?

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#37

Post by thrwway34 »

kyrieeschaton wrote: post #15

It's odd to hold as an assumption that the Russian government is the only entity that can synthesize this molecule. It's also odd to take the word of "a laboratory of the German armed forces" as some sort of independent source in a clear political conflict.

It's not "a laboratory of the German armed forces". And it's not "clear political conflict" - it's Russia lying about destroying their chemical weapons and instead using them in Europe and UK - see Navalny and Skripal.

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#38

Post by Paradigma11 »

kyrieeschaton wrote: post #15

It's odd to hold as an assumption that the Russian government is the only entity that can synthesize this molecule. It's also odd to take the word of "a laboratory of the German armed forces" as some sort of independent source in a clear political conflict.

Might be but what entities are able to carry out such an attack in Tomsk: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tomsk,+Tomsk+Oblast,+Russi...

"The rare Westerner in Tomsk will be met with wariness and curiosity, though seldom hostility."https://www.tripsavvy.com/tomsk-the-hidden-russia-1502232

Especially while Nawalny was under heavy FSB observation. And why did the russians "not find" any traces of Novichok? Why did the russians not start a massive investigation but have to wait for the official german report in the correct format or whatever.

If there would have been any possibility at all this being a false flag or a charade by Nawalny the city and airplane would be one big CSI labor.

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#39

Post by AstralStorm »

nikivi wrote: post #6

The things happening in Russia before the protest on Saturday is dystopian. Police take into custody anyone who is trying to promote it, schools are suddenly open and students are being scared by threats of disqualification if they go outside on that day. I hope this dictatorship ends soon. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace and enforcing more police and mi…

As long as third of Russia wants a Tsar (or another authoritarian strong man) some other 20% want USSR back (remember how corrupt that was too) and most of the rest is silent nothing will change there. Oppression was standard in both of these setups.

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#40

Post by AstralStorm »

lollipop90 wrote: post #33
kyrieeschaton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The circumstances are that an english-tweeting western-sponsored Yale World Fellow with approximately zero actual Russian support found himself "poisoned" (nonfatally, of course) in a way politically useful to the west in their ongoing project of destabilizing Russia, as diagnosed by western security services.

> with approximately zero actual Russian support Despite the fact that the odds are stacked (media controlled by United Russia, etc...) Navalny got 27% of the vote in 2013 Moscow election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Moscow_mayoral_election#C... That is not exactly "zero actual support". And that was before the 2018 "pension" reforms.

Still not enough to force the hand of the ruling oligarchs just yet. When it's closer to half they're on to something.
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