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Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

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Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#351

Post by mancerayder »

_dw7s wrote: post #160
nostromo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

> Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. citation needed. Silicon Valley is a monument to capitalism and most if not all entrepreneurs lean libertarian. As for the news media, as an example, Fox News has the highest viewership in the US. And for the others, ever thought about why you're not seeing a lot of coverage about unions/worker rights/worker strikes? Don't mistake anti-Trump rhe…

Fox News has the biggest viewership of a single outlet, and it's right-wing, sure (93+% of viewers self-identify as Republican).

But MSNBC viewers self-identify as Democrat at the rate of 95%, NYT as 91%, NPR at 87%, CNN at 79%.

You need to compare aggregate numbers if you're trying to be fair.

The source for the above is Pew Research Center, Sept 12, 2020, published in this Tweet: https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/1304908656543178752

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#353

Post by toast0 »

mercurialshark wrote: post #162
mercurialshark wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech attorney here (with no relation to this specific matter). I wouldn't say they don't have a leg to stand on. I think it will prove to be very interesting.

Without addressing the specifics of the TRO (which is simply an early stage request for injunctive relief, asking the court to compel AWS to reinstate services pending litigation): Packinghan v North Carolina (2017) - Access to social media and digital infrastructure cannot be prohibited by the state. Marsh v Alabama (1946) - Constitutional protections of 1st and 14th amendments applicable within confines of “town” o…

You may want to add Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins (1980) providing a right to first ammendment speech on private property. Although follow on cases have narrowed the prescedent quite a bit.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#354

Post by jcranmer »

mercurialshark wrote: post #270
Someone1234 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they, like me, read the court's frankly damning opinion and didn't find that your fact-less argument from authority contributed to the discussion. If you wanted to write a "long form" (?) reply then you could have done so. In the meantime the hand wave above has to stand on its own merits; or more specifically fall on its lack thereof.

I don't think responding in less than five minutes was unreasonable. It's also not legal advice, simply my personal opinion on some of the numerous issues that are likely to be litigated. I also think this entire thread will be worth revisiting upon appeal.

I don't see how this case will go anywhere on appeal: the facts that are actually alleged in the complaint are simply too thread-bare to support any matter of law that could be appealed, and Parler hasn't claimed anything that would allow your legal theory to apply to this case.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#355

Post by decebalus1 »

mancerayder wrote: post #351
_dw7s wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. citation needed. Silicon Valley is a monument to capitalism and most if not all entrepreneurs lean libertarian. As for the news media, as an example, Fox News has the highest viewership in the US. And for the others, ever thought about why you're not seeing a lot of coverage about unions/worker rights/worker strikes? Don't mistake anti-Trump rhe…

Fox News has the biggest viewership of a single outlet, and it's right-wing, sure (93+% of viewers self-identify as Republican). But MSNBC viewers self-identify as Democrat at the rate of 95%, NYT as 91%, NPR at 87%, CNN at 79%. You need to compare aggregate numbers if you're trying to be fair. The source for the above is Pew Research Center, Sept 12, 2020, published in this Tweet: https://twitter.com/pewresearch/sta…

Sigh.. Should we forget about the Sinclair Broadcast Group which is the second largest TV station owner in the country and does crap like: https://youtu.be/UOaayej-130?t=34 ?

Saying 'all media is left leaning' is factually false.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#356

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

Someone1234 wrote: post #230
mercurialshark wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been no ruling by the court on the merits of the case. A TRO is simply a request for injunctive relief, asking the court to compel AWS to reinstate services pending litigation. -- > Packinghan v North Carolina (2017) - Access to social media and digital infrastructure cannot be prohibited by the state. Amazon isn't the state. - Correct. My point is that Packinghan, viewed in combination with Marsh, provides…

> My point is that Packinghan, viewed in combination with Marsh, provides an interesting lens for issues concerning potentially monopolistic behavior. IF data storage and/or social media can be viewed as critical digital infrastructure, an argument can and will likely be made that the services are tantamount to a digital company owned town. We'll see! Either way it's very interesting and highly relevant to the indust…

Up and down this thread people are mixing questionable legal ingredients in hopes of finding a recipe that makes sense.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#357

Post by kortilla »

tptacek wrote: post #266
jcranmer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does this matter? Legally, I don't think it does. I don't see any good reason why AWS shouldn't be allowed to selectively enforce their ToS. Well, first off, it's not necessarily the case that AWS's contract with Twitter is the same as AWS's contract with Parler. But more importantly, whether or not a company chooses to enforce violations of contracts with third parties has no bearing on whether it can enforce…

Moreover, as I'm fond of pointing out: Amazon bounces people off AWS all the time , just like every hosting provider; abuse is a basic fact of life in hosting. Amazon will have no trouble establishing that what it did with Parler is routine, and that nobody could reasonably have an expectation that the AUP was merely performative.

For technology abuse (e.g. spamming, botnets, etc), legal reasons (cp, pii dumps, etc), or for not liking the content being hosted?

What happened to Parler is not routine when you exclude all of the cases of blatant abuse of the service.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#358

Post by SuoDuanDao »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #242
kyrra wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you listen to Parler's CEO arguing about being shut down[0] (interview with Megyn Kelly), he was saying that their tech rep at Amazon gave no hints that they were in danger of being shut down. It sounded like they were doing a decent job and they tried to remedy Amazon's issues, but Amazon wanted nothing to do with them anymore. EDIT: to add, this is just his take. There is obviously 2-sides to the story, so hard…

Parler's CEO claims were debunked by Amazon, which provided evidence that they warned Parler for months across multiple multiple violations: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/filing-amazon-wa...

Anyone who used the term 'debunk' is hella sus.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#359

Post by repeatafterme1 »

umvi wrote: post #92
xoa wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues I'm sorry for the caps but you and a host of others are forgetting something repeatedly and it's getting fairly annoying: AMAZON HAS FREE SPEECH RIGHTS TOO. Just as Parler does, and you do, and I do, and Twitter does, and the various owners and employees of these organizations do, and on and on. It's Free Speech all the way down. And a funda…

Should Verizon and T-Mobile have free speech rights too then? Why should they allow literal Nazis to communicate over their infrastructure?

Take a deep breath, and repeat after me: "I am ok with others cancelling companies/people I don't agree with politically". Deep breath out. Ahhh, that feels much better!

PD. Just don't you dare cancel those I agree with!

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#360

Post by acdha »

mercurialshark wrote: post #110
acdha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain?

Sure, I'll circle back with a longer form response in a few minutes. In the meantime, I find it interesting that people think down voting my comment will intimidate me into changing the analysis. That's not how legal judgment works. That's not how anything works...

It's not intimidation as much as a content-free post. You claim to be a lawyer and I have no reason to doubt that but that doesn't mean that your opinion is authoritative: for example, Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani are lawyers but they clearly do not let either the facts or law prevent them from saying whatever is politically expedient.

Your subsequent comment avoided all of that by having something tangible which can be evaluated.

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