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DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

newdelorean.com

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Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#101

Post by throwaway0a5e »

madhadron wrote: post #19
elihu wrote: post #7

> National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has completed a regulation permitting low volume motor vehicle manufacturers to begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago. Congress enacted a DeLorean Motor Company-backed bill backed by the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) DeLorean Motor Company, and others into law in 2015, which streamlined requirements for…

> I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Rather, electric motors don't need transmissions. Transmissions are a workaround for the failings of the internal combustion engine.

My electric drill begs to differ. Well so long as I don't want to let the magic smoke out it does.

Your commuter car can get away with a simple single gear reduction drive system. Electric work vehicles are going to need at least a couple gears for the same reason modern truck transmissions have stupid low 1st gears and 4x4s have low range.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#102

Post by Daho0n »

dharmab wrote: post #85
Daho0n wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something or I'm too stupid to understand the article but I don't see why anyone should be allowed to sell a new car with old safety standards for road use? I'm not from the US so maybe it is yet "Another US Thing I Don't Understand" (sorry). Where I'm at (in Scandinavia) not only would this not be allowed on the roads but even if I buy an old car and want to upgrade it (modern brakes?) it wouldn't…

In the US we find your road safety laws insane as well. It costs 3x as much to DIY fix your own can there as it does here due to needing "approved parts" and an inspection of every repair. Things that are easy, safe and affordable DIY fixes in the US are impossible there. Your laws are not EU-wide, by the way. Most of the EU doesn't require the approved parts to pass inspection, and only requires the inspection at re…

I don't know where you read this but it isn't true.

>only requires the inspection at regular intervals, not after every repair.

This is how it is in Scandinavian countries too by EU law (well, in EU member states, I don't know about Norway). It is inspection every 4 years or if it is a vintage car (30+ yro) every 8. You also don't need "approved parts" (what does that even mean?) and I can freely buy parts from the US and Germany and use if I want to and have done so (I have a US-only model motorcycle).

The manufacture have to get all their car types certified by the state, like how NCAP crash-test one of each model, and if it is certified in one EU country it is in all. But if you change the car significantly (like upgrade an old 80's Trans-Am with modern parts) you have to get it certified all over again for that one car as it is now a unique untested car. Possible but extremely expensive. Sure it doesn't give you the freedom to drive some of the homemade monstrosities some drive in the US but it also doesn't block niche cars or vintage cars.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#103

Post by gwbas1c »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #97
Armisael16 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could even do a stickshift EV if they wanted to, though most car companies seem to not think it's worth the complexity/maintenance, and I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Electric motors have a wider power band, so there’s less need for gear shifting. They could get more efficiency with multiple gears, but it’s be a smaller benefit than in an ICE vehicle. One of the big early…

For anything that isn't a car you're gonna want gears for the same reason electric drills have gears. Think of it like low range. "muh instant 0rpm torque" is absolutely nothing compared to the inertia of a hired driver who doesn't care (or is just a novice) dumping the clutch. Building a transmission to handle electric motor loads isn't a particularly remarkable engineering challenge. (Though you can make any engine…

I've done both. Clutch dumps require that you rev the engine up to high RPMs first. Instant torque is, well, instant.

I suggest you try it before you make fun of it.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#104

Post by mywittyname »

mrfusion wrote: post #76
leetcrew wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they don't need a clutch because they can't stall. but, like ICEs, they cannot make peak power at 0 RPM. unless the vehicle is already traction limited (quite possible), it could accelerate faster with a shorter first gear. my guess is in reality it's usually cheaper to just overbuild the motors than to add lower gears to hit your desired 0-60 time, but this isn't a law of nature.

I wonder what torque looks like at 0 rpm. I thought that was peak? But If it’s bad maybe a torque converter would be useful?

Electric motors "torque ripple" at low RPMs (well, at all RPMs, but it is most noticeable at lower RPMs), which can cause motor "cogging". Cogging is either a complete stall, or really jerky behavior that feels pretty close to what an ICE is like at very low RPMs. *

There are different motor designs out there that alter power delivery for situations where very low-RPM torque is required. As with most design decisions, there are trade-offs involved.

And yeah, I'm sure a torque converter would be helpful in that situation. But I think that generally, passenger cars don't need to go very fast, so most EVs can get away with short enough gearing that cogging isn't an issue, at the expense of top seed.

* hold some low-power electric motor in your hands, turn it on then gradually clap the output with your fingers. You'll eventually feel the power output go to nothing and the motor will wind. That's cogging.

Also, the whole "peak torque at 0 RPMs" thing is really a side effect of the fact that electric motors produce consistent power across the rev band (except at really low, and really high RPMs). And the formula for power is power = torque * RPM. Since power is essentially fixed with an electric motor, you rearrange that equation to be torque = power / RPM, and peak torque is at the limit as RPM goes to 0.

In real world applications, torque output is limited by physics and current delivery, so peak torque is truncated at low RPMs.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#106

Post by walrus01 »

elihu wrote: post #7

> National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has completed a regulation permitting low volume motor vehicle manufacturers to begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago. Congress enacted a DeLorean Motor Company-backed bill backed by the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) DeLorean Motor Company, and others into law in 2015, which streamlined requirements for…

> begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago

for people who might be interested in owning a weird or unique vehicle with quite a lot less cost than a $50,000+ electric vehicle...

The 25 year comment reminded me that you can legally import just about anything to the US, including japanese domestic market right hand drives vehicles, as long as its date of manufacture was at least 25 years ago. There's lots of amazingly weird japanese vehicles you can buy for less than $8000 via reputable brokers.

you will want to learn to read the inspection report forms for each vehicle, and the grading system used in japanese used car sales and auctions.

Shipment to a west coast port should be under $1800 USD.

The US federal import paperwork for a 25 year old vehicle is not very onerous or difficult, if you google a bit about it you can find examples of what it looks like.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#107

Post by Daho0n »

trhway wrote: post #95
Daho0n wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that affects the entrepreneurship and innovation. It very likely does but it also saves a lot of peoples lives each day. I mean, not only niche cars, but not having good basic safety in general on the roads. Road fatalities per one billion vehicle km is at 7.3 in the US according to Wikipedia. The worst Scandinavian country is Denmark with 3.9. I guess it comes down to if you want Freedom To Do Stupid Things (like n…

>Freedom To Do Stupid Things something like this. Though those stupid things aren't niche cars or any other innovations. It is plain old stupidity - US has 10K/year DUI related deaths, Denmark - 75/year, 2x less per capita. Also bigger cars popular in US like trucks - while fully public road certified, they are conceptually and engineering wise are relatively behind the curve - resulting in more deadly accidents.

That is a bit surprising to me as Denmark in Scandinavia has a reputation for drinking a lot. I looked up the numbers on Wikipedia and "Pure alcohol consumption among persons (age 15+) in litres per capita per year" is 11.4 in Denmark and 9.2 in the US (same as Sweden). Of course DUI is something else entirely..

TIL.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#108

Post by simias »

mikestew wrote: post #6

Why would I want an electric version of a fat, slow, heavy car? Oh, right, because Back to the Future . And gull-wing doors, let's be honest.

I don't think anybody is pretending otherwise. It's a cool cult car, that's all there is to it. I guess it would also be a cool technical challenge to update it to modern standards while keeping true to its roots.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#110

Post by samstave »

walrus01 wrote: post #106
elihu wrote: post #7

> National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has completed a regulation permitting low volume motor vehicle manufacturers to begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago. Congress enacted a DeLorean Motor Company-backed bill backed by the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) DeLorean Motor Company, and others into law in 2015, which streamlined requirements for…

> begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago for people who might be interested in owning a weird or unique vehicle with quite a lot less cost than a $50,000+ electric vehicle... The 25 year comment reminded me that you can legally import just about anything to the US, including japanese domestic market right hand drives vehicles, as long as its date of manufacture was at least 2…

I'll take one Datsun 510 please in avocado green and an EV with right-hand drive.
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