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AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

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Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#131

Post by scoopertrooper »

mminer237 wrote: post #55
markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

Obviously Amazon has the legal right to make a fork, but I think it's understandable why people would still prefer that the people who actually did the innovation and the majority of the work get their cut of the insane profits AWS is making.

It's like leaving your car in the middle of the road, keys in the ignition, and a deed transferring ownership to whoever holds it under the window wiper, then getting annoyed at someone driving off with it.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#132

Post by parasubvert »

geofft wrote: post #68
izolate wrote: post #49

We need to dismantle these tech behemoths so they can't bully smaller companies. This is toxic behavior on Amazon's part, but par for the course for Bezos's company.

The fundamental "open source sustainability" problem is capitalism, or at least our incarnation of it, and everyone dances around it. You can't license your way out of this problem. You can't services-company your way out of this problem. The fundamental issue is that it is good for the world for skilled developers to spend all day writing software and giving it away, but they can make much more money writing softwar…

If you think capitalism causes problems with people getting paid for good work, I think you might be glossing over the historical failures of the alternatives relative to the ultimate goal of free / open software: user freedom.

Even in a socialist system, how does it solve the problem of competition, free ridership, and economically non-rival/non-excludable goods like software source code? You still need to collect money but no one has to pay it unless you erect laws that restrict user freedom.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#133

Post by CapriciousCptl »

rdtsc wrote: post #89
crb002 wrote: post #6

Elastic was suing them for trademark breach. Hosting didn't bother them - it is FOSS. Lying that they were in partnership with Elastic did.

That's the interesting thing to me, why they were so openly dishonest about it. https://twitter.com/Werner/status/649738362086027265 --- Introducing the Amazon Elasticsearch service, a great partnership between @elastic and #AWS --- How was it a "great partnership" if one side didn't even know about it...

AFAIK, that tweet from Vogel is the only time someone representing AWS claimed to have a partnership with Elastic. He was wrong, but I don't think it's fair calling it "dishonest."

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#134

Post by Chyzwar »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #76
mminer237 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously Amazon has the legal right to make a fork, but I think it's understandable why people would still prefer that the people who actually did the innovation and the majority of the work get their cut of the insane profits AWS is making.

Why Elastic and not Lucene or OpenJDK ?

They already have fork of OpenJDK (Amazon Corretto)

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#135

Post by mrsuprawsm »

dijit wrote: post #7

And I, for sure, will never use them. The AWS version of ES has been abysmal- it’s only saving grace is that it’s “in the ecosystem”- I was convinced by an AWS zealot on my team. Never again.

Personally me and my team just evaluated the AWS ES and Elastic offerings, and the AWS offering (surprisingly!) came out on top, for our use case. Better performance, better IaC support, and marginally cheaper.

Honestly I would have preferred the Elastic offering to work better, but that wasn't the case.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#136

Post by __blockcipher__ »

majormajor wrote: post #81
weego wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feel like live by the sword, die by the sword to me. Elastic because a highly successful business off the product being open source and then leveraging that into funding and enterprise licensing and maintenence. To turn around after and go 'we love open source... No not like that' is disingenuous at best. The license choice was always yours to make, you took the one that gave you the best growth model that got you…

Nothing about the new ES license would've prevented me from using it for free in the previous places I've used it for free, as far as I can tell. Yet it would've prevented AWS from undercutting their paid offering in the place I'm at now that would rather pay for it than self-host it. The lesson I'm taking away from this is just use a license like they're using now from day 1. Totally "open" open source only works if…

> Yet it would've prevented AWS from undercutting their paid offering in the place I'm at now that would rather pay for it than self-host it.

Key word here is would've. They were already Apache 2.0 until 7.1.0 therefore this change will have absolutely no effect on Amazon's business; all it will do is encourage the develop of high-quality feature-rich Apache 2.0 forks while hurting Elastic's brand image - rightly so - because they're (a) no longer an open-source company [except for beats/etc which only works in the context of the now-proprietary elasticsearch/kibana], and (b) they outright lied to the community when they claimed that future versions of their open core would always remain Apache 2.0

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#137

Post by swiley »

markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

People get upset about the GPL but this is exactly why it was created.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#138

Post by blantonl »

juanbyrge wrote: post #32

The audacity of these AWS folks patronizing elastic about open source despite AWS making millions of dollars off of their open source project just reeks of entitlement. Glad I am never going to use AWS.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or real.

But one thing is for certain, AWS is using open source software, for profit, under the Apache license, exactly as the license was intended

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#139

Post by thekyle »

munificent wrote: post #104
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with what Amazon is doing ethically. They're creating value for their customers, and releasing open source software while doing so. Indeed it's Elastic who tried to get all the positives of open source with none of the negatives (as evidenced by them making Elasticsearch/Kibana no longer open source) BTW, not that it's super relevant but the narrative that Amazon is driving Elastic bankrupt is…

> Elastic pulls in $500MM in revenue Not taking sides, but for comparison, Amazon makes that much revenue every 12 hours.

Bad comparison, Amazon does much more than Elastic. How much does the Amazon Elasticsearch product bring in? That's what actually matters here.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#140

Post by pjmlp »

markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

Agreed, next time learn what using non copyleft licenses mean in practice.
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