Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#111

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #68

triceratops wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting how much actual political power the right in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. The Senate and electoral college favor them massively. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to change any laws that might counter their preferences.

One set of influencers is elected and held to account, the other is largely unaccountable.

First, the first set isn't a set of influencers. They directly legislate law.

Second, the other is accountable to the same laws as anyone else.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#112

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #42

throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

I'm not American but having browsed Parler for say half an hour, if that is supposed to represent 'the other half', then I pray for the country.

I don't think American news media or academia or Silicon Valley skews left. It skews ... urban and educated? Silicon Valley seems libertarian-ish, news and media seems like they do in every other country. From here it doesn't even look like the US has organised, left-wing political actors.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#113

Post by elldoubleyew » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

I don't understand what's keeping the Parler team from just standing up their own servers in a garage somewhere. Its still an early stage platform, and its not like they were experiencing explosive growth as far as I understand.

This seems like a perfect use case for a small home server. If they find a revenue stream then they can scale to renting some rack space somewhere. I know its not as easy as clicking a button in AWS but its not totally debilitating.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#114

Post by bdamm » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

richardARPANET wrote: post #53

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Parler wasn't dropped for making Amazon look bad. Parler was dropped for repeatedly failing to address blatant terms of service violations. AWS still hosts the National Enquirer, the magazine that literally tried to blackmail Jeff Bezos. AWS is hardly in the habit of r…

Dropped by Amazon, in coordination with both App Stores just as it reached #1 ranked app. Really really interesting.

Similar to how a car accident is interesting, perhaps. My wife checked out the site just to see if it was really that bad. She concluded it was. No doubt many installed it for the same reason.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#115

Post by aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #17

klmadfejno wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues They booted Parler off for violence issues. One may personally disagree about where to draw that blurry line, but I think there's more than enough plausible deniability here. This is not the trigger of a grand slippery slope. If Amazon drops a company purely for non-violent political differences, by all means, lets raise those pitchforks.

These things always start with moves that sound completely reasonable. Only time will tell if they expand their moderation demands.

So, stop doing completely reasonable things then?

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#116

Post by zamalek » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

klmadfejno wrote: post #7

unethical_ban wrote: post #3

I've been trying to come to grips with the societal impact of echo chambers, "hate" speech, and the obligations vs. rights of sites and hosting providers. So far, my take is that websites have less obligation than hosting. It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues - I am leaning more and more to the idea that colos, IaaS and ISPs should be considered common carriers, and that only a c…

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues They booted Parler off for violence issues. One may personally disagree about where to draw that blurry line, but I think there's more than enough plausible deniability here. This is not the trigger of a grand slippery slope. If Amazon drops a company purely for non-violent political differences, by all means, lets raise those pitchforks.

> They booted Parler off for violence issues.

It baffles me how often violence issues become conflated with speech issues. You are absolutely correct, this is a violence issue.

America has likely the most free speech protections in the world, but fighting words (violence) are not protected. There is a huge amount of precdent to support Amazon's actions here, dating back decades.

Furthermore, just because Facebook did nothing is no reason for Amazon to sit idly by doing nothing. Is the advocation for Amazon to become another bystander? Is the superior situation to have all platforms supporting and enabling insurrection and possible sedition? Get off it. Amazon can make the right choice irrespective of their peers making the worst choice.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#117

Post by fjabre » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #3

I've been trying to come to grips with the societal impact of echo chambers, "hate" speech, and the obligations vs. rights of sites and hosting providers. So far, my take is that websites have less obligation than hosting. It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues - I am leaning more and more to the idea that colos, IaaS and ISPs should be considered common carriers, and that only a c…

I agree with this completely. You just send them further underground.

There is no 'but' as people would have you believe here. But they are Nazis. But I don't agree with them. But they cause riots and violence. There's always a 'but'.

Only a court order should have the power to shut these sites down and that's only if they present a clear and present danger.

This is clearly a cultural cleansing of sorts. I remember other such cultural revolutions. China comes to mind.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#118

Post by akersten » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #76

tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

The judge went so far as to explain why Parler's motion fails on all of the points, not just the "likelihood of success on the merits". That's a pretty irate judge: they're going out of their way, incurring more work upon themselves, to berate you. The only surprising things here are a) it took the judge a week to deny this motion, and b) AWS hasn't asked for the case to be transferred to arbitration (given the manda…

> (given the mandatory arbitration clause in the TOS somewhere).

This was the most surprising angle to me - that the case didn't fail prima facie on this clause alone. I guess at least it serves to really emphasize how bad of a case they brought.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#119

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

> Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content

Nonsense. Parler was created to host content which Twitter blocked and users which Twitter banned. Not suggesting Twitter was in the clear here, but suggesting Twitter was worse is BS. Parler tolerated much worse content, and on average content on Parler was much more incendiary.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#120

Post by echelon » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

smackmybishop wrote: post #22

snarf21 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main issue is that people expect free. And free means ads (unless some billionaire is going to fund it out of pocket). And ads means you can't have child porn and terrorism on your platform.

AWS is neither free nor ad-supported.

AWS wouldn't exist if the web had been P2P.

If YouTube was based on BitTorrent.

If Facebook was based on Diaspora, Mastodon, Scuttlebutt, etc.

If Messenger was based on Matrix.

Centralized platforms make ad revenue, form moats, and become big business. Hosting isn't their core competency, so they outsource. Thus AWS.