Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#21

Post by klmadfejno » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #14

klmadfejno wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues They booted Parler off for violence issues. One may personally disagree about where to draw that blurry line, but I think there's more than enough plausible deniability here. This is not the trigger of a grand slippery slope. If Amazon drops a company purely for non-violent political differences, by all means, lets raise those pitchforks.

Apparently mostly facebook was used, not parler.

Sure, maybe? Doesn't mean parler wasn't a toxic violent place. If you want to hold facebook to a higher standard, by all means, I agree.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#22

Post by smackmybishop » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #15

scohesc wrote: post #4

Parlers goal of being the alternate free speech platform is horrendously thought out. The same companies and that they are trying to remove influence from (Silicon Valley - amazon, twitter, facebook, etc.) are the same companies that they're doing business with. Gab is ridiculous and I get a very religious "holier than thou" (lol) vibe from them. Their founder(s) are very puritanical and will likely not survive the n…

I think the main issue is that people expect free. And free means ads (unless some billionaire is going to fund it out of pocket). And ads means you can't have child porn and terrorism on your platform.

AWS is neither free nor ad-supported.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#23

Post by sparrish » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

Amazon has a right to associate (or not associate) with whomever they want. This is a fundamental principle of freedom - something Parler should know, understand, and espouse. Why are they fighting? They should be applauding.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

Expanding on this, "courts have repeatedly emphasized, an injunction represents an 'extraordinary remedy' that is never awarded as a matter of right... For a preliminary injunction to issue, the moving party has the burden of demonstrating all four of the following elements: (1) that it is likely to succeed on the merits; (2) that it is likely to suffer irreparable harm in the absence of preliminary relief; (3) that the balance of equities tips in its favor; and (4) that an injunction serves the public interest."

Parler failed the first test.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#25

Post by snoshy » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

It seemed apparent right when the case was filed that Parler didn't have a leg to stand on. It was partly a play for publicity that plays well into their customer demographics, and a dying gasp of trying to seek some kind of injunctive help from the administration, no matter how impossible it seemed.

Judging by how weak their infrastructure was in the first place, getting any kind of resilient hosting in place after all the industry behemoths turned their backs on Parler was clear not a viable option. If you can't get your site to work well with all the best tools, you really have little hope in the wild west.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#26

Post by OniBait » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #3

I've been trying to come to grips with the societal impact of echo chambers, "hate" speech, and the obligations vs. rights of sites and hosting providers. So far, my take is that websites have less obligation than hosting. It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues - I am leaning more and more to the idea that colos, IaaS and ISPs should be considered common carriers, and that only a c…

I would suspect that it would give Twitter pause about hosting anything in AWS. But I doubt that is the case because there seems to have been a pretty clear-cut case of collusion between Twitter, Apple, Google and Amazon to silence Trump by any means possible.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#27

Post by albinofrenchy » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

Does twitter get away with hosting way worse content? Parler explicitly does not moderate calls both subtle and overt to violence -- much less just blatant propaganda. Pretty sure the reason parler gained traction is that twitter does.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#28

Post by jorblumesea » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

scohesc wrote: post #4

Parlers goal of being the alternate free speech platform is horrendously thought out. The same companies and that they are trying to remove influence from (Silicon Valley - amazon, twitter, facebook, etc.) are the same companies that they're doing business with. Gab is ridiculous and I get a very religious "holier than thou" (lol) vibe from them. Their founder(s) are very puritanical and will likely not survive the n…

Good points but I'd go a bit farther and say that the same companies they are trying to remove influence from are the same companies they [parler] are becoming or will become.

The idea that parler or gab is somehow "freer" or less censored than any other site seems untrue. They are more tolerant of a certain political identity and less tolerant of another one.

It's just replacing their boogiemen with one of their own design.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#29

Post by julienb_sea » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

scohesc wrote: post #4

Parlers goal of being the alternate free speech platform is horrendously thought out. The same companies and that they are trying to remove influence from (Silicon Valley - amazon, twitter, facebook, etc.) are the same companies that they're doing business with. Gab is ridiculous and I get a very religious "holier than thou" (lol) vibe from them. Their founder(s) are very puritanical and will likely not survive the n…

I think the future of controversial speech is in closed, private groups on large platforms. Those fly under the radar and can escape public pressure, which has the side effect of easing pressure on Facebook to halt the "controversial" discussions. This is why violent protests will likely continue to be primarily organized on high profile platforms like Facebook.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#30

Post by multjoy » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #17

klmadfejno wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues They booted Parler off for violence issues. One may personally disagree about where to draw that blurry line, but I think there's more than enough plausible deniability here. This is not the trigger of a grand slippery slope. If Amazon drops a company purely for non-violent political differences, by all means, lets raise those pitchforks.

These things always start with moves that sound completely reasonable. Only time will tell if they expand their moderation demands.

What are these things, specifically?