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SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

biorxiv.org

51–60 of 131 posts

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#51

Interesting... the common cold and the flu also tend to mutate to be resistant to past immunity. I wonder if we’re on a the cusp of finally finding cures for these types of rapidly mutating viruses.

Or you could just wear a mask and social distance and not congregate indoors with random strangers for long periods of time

These are necessarily temporary measures. Life cannot go on forever with these restrictions in place. Either medical science will find a way to limit the danger or people will adapt to their new, more dangerous world. I am not an anti-masker, but asking for permanent social distancing is not realistic.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#52

Interesting... the common cold and the flu also tend to mutate to be resistant to past immunity. I wonder if we’re on a the cusp of finally finding cures for these types of rapidly mutating viruses.

Or you could just wear a mask and social distance and not congregate indoors with random strangers for long periods of time

Sure, reducing transmission rate makes you less likely to be exposed in the first place. But it's not an alternative solution to a cure.

Corona's have been with mankind since before history. They never go away and its a matter of time before you are exposed to one of the coronas again.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#53

Interesting... the common cold and the flu also tend to mutate to be resistant to past immunity. I wonder if we’re on a the cusp of finally finding cures for these types of rapidly mutating viruses.

Or you could just wear a mask and social distance and not congregate indoors with random strangers for long periods of time

While those are certainly measures to take, they're a non answer. We need to return to some amount of noalcy, and none of those measures are up to snuff. Literally everyone where I live wears a mask and distances, yet cases are sky high. Somehow my grandfather caught the virus despite his assisted living home despite them being so locked down that we haven't been able to see him in person besides through a glass window. Masks and distancing just spread the deaths out over time, but they aren't a solution.

Believe it or not, some of us don't like social distancing and mandatory masks in perpetuity. If we had spent more money on developing these kinds of vaccines years ago, we might not be in the situation we are in now. If you like being isolated then be my guest, but don't be on a high horse about "just" wearing masks, and so forth at this point. We all get it. Yet people continue to get sick and die.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#54

This is the one headline I’m constantly afraid of reading... do any HN biotech experts have any comments or feedback? Is this a serious cause for concern?

re: E484K

1) it's in the spike protein. I think it's in the area that typically elicits antigen response. That's super bad news. If you look carefully, it's near the cleft of a representative antibody (fig 1a), and the buried surface area is high across the board on (clinically?) sampled antibodies (fig 1e), suggesting its importance.

2) it's a mutation that changes the charge state of one of the amino acid residues. E->K, changes a negative charge to a positive charge, potentially very bad if typically antibodies have a positive surface charge to interact with it, now they will be repelled. Since individual humans make random antibodies, even if there is no charge interaction, K amino acid is bigger than E, and so there is likely a shape interaction that could get disrupted by the "new bump" in the spike.

Is it a serious cause for concern? Yeah, almost certainly. The current round of vaccinations will probably be rendered inactive.

IMO the fastest way around this is to quickly approve a reformulation of the moderna/pfizer vaccines that encode for the new amino acid, or better yet, a cocktail of both.

For the more traditional protein-based vaccines, it could be more challenging, because the gut feeling is that an amino acid change like this could pose more of a risk to the effectiveness of the formulation for delivery of the vaccine (mrna is more "neutral" information medium that typically exerts less of a chemical change to the delivered product when altered).

In any case this emergent phenomenon will be certainly challenging to the regulatory landscape around vaccination.

disclaimer: I own MRNA stock.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#55
post #36

The current headline (“strongly resistant to past immunity”) is editorialized and not what the research here shows. It’s resistant to donor antibodies, which is definitely unfortunate and concerning, but there’s more to immunity than just antibodies, and even more to antibodies than just the ones donated. Preliminary research [1] shows that vaccines are still effective, at least, and likely that implies natural immun…

I agree, the headline is definetly not what the research shows. See my other comment on non-neutralizing antibodies. Please change the title to the original one.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#56
This is how the FDA's refusal to balance up-side risk is going to damage all of us. They're only interested in minimizing the risk from a treatment itself, and pay little to no attention to the risk from not having any treatment.

It's been a full year since the first vaccines were formulated, and it took the FDA 11 months to give the OK. That was a large streamlining of their normal processes, but not a meaningful balancing of risk, the standards remained the same.

In the meantime, the virus has had millions of opportunities to mutate like this. If we'd accepted a bit more risk, we could have significantly decreased its opportunities to mutate.

At least in this case, the virus can't mutate faster than our ability to formulate a new vaccine. Whether we can retool vaccine manufacturing I don't know. But so long as the FDA won't allow us to react quickly, the hole we're in keeps getting deeper.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#57

Question: How would this affect severity? My basic understanding is because this is a new virus humans have very little existing immunity, which is the problem and why we don't die from colds. Over time our bodies get better at dealing with the virus and the virus gets better dealing with us. I read a paper on hn to this effect a little while ago, I'll provide source if needed.

I think in general not causing death in the target host is a naturally selected trait in viruses. The least lethal viruses are the ones that spread the most.

This has been observed in herpes, which has evolved to infect nervous system cells but explicitly not nerve cells in the brain (which would cause death).

So considering that, perhaps future strains of COVID will reduce their lethality while increasing their ability to infect.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#59

I for one am not concerned. The true mortality rate appears to be 65. What does that mean? To put it into perspective you may only know one person in your friend group which knows one person who dies. Your friends / family are more likely to die of cancer. How often do you know someone die of cancer? It's definitely unfortunate; we should all socially distance & wear N95's where possible. All of us can decide if we w…

What about "long covid"?

It looks like 1 in 10 people infected experience symptomps for more than 12 weeks. [1]

Just because you aren't likely to die doesn't mean you'd be fine.

[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/theprevalen...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma

#60
post #30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understood, but if we can contain the mutations regionally, it’s better than having them spread globally.

I think you lost me. How can we have an unfettered economy, not limited by lockdowns AND contain mutations regionally? These two statements you have made seem to be at odds with one another. Or am I overthinking/underthinking this?

With total and complete mask compliance.
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