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Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

scientificamerican.com

131–140 of 299 posts

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#131

It's all about computation. The computer running universe-simulations needs to be able to run fast. Regularities can be integrated quickly. Life not so much. Life can make computers which can ask computations which can't be reduced. Therefore as soon as a big enough computer is built somewhere in the universe, the whole simulation-time starts crawling to an halt because the inner computer use all the resources, and f…

You give life and computers some special place in the universe for being to able "ask computations which can't be reduced". I don't think that's warranted. In the end, it's all fundamental particles and forces and interactions. I don't see why life would be special in that regard. A small part of material in the core of a star "asks" many more questions each second than a piece of brain tissue or a silicon chip.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#132
One thing that worries me if you look at history.

Given that someone is willing to leave their entire family and life to embark on a long quest to an unknown land, while many do it for love to get help or knowledge or resources to bring back home to their people, others are doing it because they are looking for a place where they can get away with hate.

Even if an alien civilization were 99% peaceful and good, what is the probability that the members of that civilization who would want to venture out, leave their families behind, and come meet us are the good ones or the ones in the other 1%?

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#133
I am certain there are many more planets inhabited by carbon based intelligence similar to ours. In fact, I believe they look very similar to homo sapiens and that they too are in search of extraterrestrials. Based on rough math we are nowhere near making contacts but I get goosebumps just thinking about the very first contact.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#134
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that we're one of (large number) of ant colonies and there's nothing particularly interesting about us vs. any other ant colony. Even if ETs study ants generally, there's nothing unique about us to give us a greater than 1/(large number) chance of being studied.

That would imply that there are also lots of alien worlds that are similarly developed to us and those might be interested.

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Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#135
post #21

The hard fact is there are no shortcuts to interstellar travel, barring new physics. Any trip will consume vast amounts of energy and it will take decades if not centuries or longer. Advanced tech may reduce the expense to your civilization but the fact won't change. While all life, ants or not, may be universally worthy of study, is it worth that much sacrifice? Also, if the ants talk, exchanging messages would make…

Interstellar travel simply isn't happening without something like the Alcubierre drive.

Even the Alcubierre drive may not actually work:

https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2020/11/warp-drive-news-se...

> As I explained earlier, the relevant question is then, what does the wall of the passenger area have to be made of? Is this a physically possible distribution of mass and energy? Bobrick and Martire explain that if you want superluminal motion, you need negative energy densities. If you want acceleration, you need to feed energy and momentum into the system. And the only reason the Alcubierre Drive moves faster than the speed of light is that one simply assumed it does. Suddenly it all makes sense!

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#136
post #120

Scientists thinking like scientists! I'd presume an advanced culture that can traverse the galaxy has many resources. Like humanity, I'd assume that with abundance, entertainment would be prioritized. We might be nothing more than a new source of fashion and novelty to them! They may like Rock & Roll, our food, our clothing, or even pogs. We might even be boring to them for the moment, but they're hoping for a future…

It's possible they can simulate many trillions of species realistically, so they wouldn't need to examine us individually. Many of the other trillion would have interesting music or interesting pog slammers. Their machine learning might pick up on it and surface it for them to review.

It's possible we are one of those trillion species being simulated, and our pogs are currently being scrutinized.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#137

I've always loved the thing about solar eclipses and auroras: in order to see an aurora during an eclipse, the moon has to be the exact same size as the sun (when viewed from the planet). Earth has this (for a while at least - the moon is slowly moving away from us), and it makes us special. So if you want to find aliens, look during a solar eclipse. It's a rare phenomenon and if there are alien tourists, they'll wan…

What makes you think it is a rare phenomenon to them, or that they have the same conceptualizations of "needs and wants" as we do? What if they view these events the same way we view watching paint dry or grass grow? Just as we have to be careful not to anthropomorphize animals and other species, we must also not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing alien species until there's an actual encounter and we get to 'k…

Sure, but where do you stop with this line of thinking? What if the aliens are giant gas clouds that have trouble with the whole idea of planets? What if the aliens are fluctuations in plasma flows inside a star and don't realise there's anything outside their environment?

As far as we know, there's nothing out there. As far as we know, we're the most advanced life form in the entire universe (for a given definition of "advanced"). As far as we know, every exoplanet is teeming with civilisations. We know nothing. So if we are engaged in speculating about aliens, then speculating that they're probably like us, while allowing that they may not be, seems to me to be the only sensible thing to do.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#138
There are also aspects that should be considered in my opinion

1°/ individual intelligence and technological innovation is not necessary an ultimate achivement that enables competitive advantage : human beings may be individually smart (compared to some other species) yet the collective intelligence of humanity is rather poor (which translates to the unability to solve collective problems such as sustainable management of our finite natural resources (e.g. oil) or of the consequences of our activity (e.g. biodiversity fall and climate change)). I suspect humanity will experience in a few decades a major regression (if not extinction) which could be interpreted as natural selection because of lack of collective intelligence. The same could also happen to other civilizations and maybe technological innovation the way we see it today is not necessary a ultimate achievement !

2°/ even if some other intelligent species would exist, maybe they would not have the same need to communicate, the same need or will to travel, the same need or will to innovate, etc.

3°/ even if some civilizations could be infinitely smart both individually and collectively and have enough genius to implement all engineering allowed by the laws of physics and have the will to implement it, maybe the laws of physics together with the nature/amount of natural resources on a typical planet do not enable such intergalactic space travels ! Sure, we were able to fly to the moon and we can make 5nm transistors while our ancestors would never have believed it could be done and it might make us dream that "everything is possible because genius and engineering have no limits", yet I would still be careful and such claims sounds more like religious faith than science. People need to understand the enormous distances we are talking about here and we need to remain humble that maybe it is and will remain forever an obstacle :)

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#139
post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

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Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#140
post #120

Scientists thinking like scientists! I'd presume an advanced culture that can traverse the galaxy has many resources. Like humanity, I'd assume that with abundance, entertainment would be prioritized. We might be nothing more than a new source of fashion and novelty to them! They may like Rock & Roll, our food, our clothing, or even pogs. We might even be boring to them for the moment, but they're hoping for a future…

It also could be as entertaining as watching paint dry for them.
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