Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#91

Post by px43 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

nend wrote: post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

Maybe there's a much more interesting colony of ants nearby and we're just boring?

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#92

Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #76

bluGill wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is possible relativity is wrong, anything that replaces it must fit all the observations we have about the universe that we currently use to prove relativity. That leaves very little room for the replacement for relativity to be different. Newtonian physics is a special case of relativity when you keep relative speeds slow. We don't know how quantum mechanics fits in. There is a known hole in current physics…

I find it difficult to respond without emotion, to such a comment. We likely know very very little about physics right now. My point with Newtonian physics is that at the time, it was The Physics. According to observation capable at the time, it seemed to make sense, with a few little oddities. To them, they thought they had a small hole in current physics. Does that sound like your "small hole" in current physics to…

The reality is newtonian physics is still taught in college because for the vast majority of what people need physics for it is close enough to correct as to not matter.

I come back to this: even if we are wrong, whatever is correct still needs to fit all the observations that we have done to date. I don't know what we will know in 1000 years. Euclidean geometry is over 2000 years old and still considered correct (though we have expanded on it a lot - see in particular non-euclidean geometry)

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#93

Post by adamisom » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

It only takes one.

If you assume that the real hurdle is there being any aliens, such that many advanced alien species are almost as likely to exist as one, then indeed the majority may not want to study us 'ants'... but it only takes one.

A similar argument applies to many other things, like nuclear weapons, or any other future superweapons.

It also applies to worries around AGI or artificial general intelligence. The majority of research facilities may sign on to and implement very good ethics around releasing the software, or halting it if X happens. But it only takes one.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#94

Post by ryanmercer » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #41

yoz-y wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time a new mammal was discovered here it was international news. If an alien civilisation has trillions of trillions individuals, there must be quite a bit of them interested in any possible niche. This assumes that an interstellar species would be naturally curious.

There are, literally, millions of planets that can sustain life as we know it. Assuming a human-like mind, that alone is enough to reduce the interest in alien life as something mundane.

>There are, literally, millions of planets that can sustain life as we know it.

There are probably x amount of planets that can sustain life as we know it. We haven't even verified the existence of millions of planets.

https://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/docs/counts_detail... shows only 4331 confirmed exoplanets, of those we've visited 0 and are still largely guessing as to their atmospheres, weather, temperatures, seismic activity, etc. Not to mention some we've found in the "goldilocks" zone are likely regularly sterilized due to the conditions of their orbit and their stars.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#95

Post by tjalfi » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

drclau wrote: post #48

What bothers me quite a bit, both in more-or-less scientific conversations and in Science Fiction, is that we virtually always assume a human-like psychology for aliens, and we judge what they may want or not based on our thinking. Even when we think about potentially highly advanced aliens, we still assume they'll have a psychology similar to ours, and they'll just be more advanced technologically (ie. the aliens an…

John Varley's Eight Worlds series has an alien species called the Invaders. They invaded Earth to protect cetaceans from the effects of human civilization.

The Invaders divide sentient life into three tiers - species like themselves that evolve in gas giants, cetaceans, and vermin; we're in the third category.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Worlds

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#96

Post by behnamoh » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

smelter wrote: post #83

ruined wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and not only this, even among classified species, most colonies will never interact directly with a human. when ants do come into contact with things we have made, they do not comprehend it. and when they interact with us directly, even in a mode where we are identifiable to them as an entity, they can't identify much about us beyond the practical facts that we are dangerous or perhaps edible.

To an ant, I am a mountain/ thunderstorm/earthquake/quasar.

Chances are ETs have transformed into a physical form that is undistinguishable from, say, planets, energy, even stars. After all, the ultimate level of technology design and sophistication is when it is not distinguishable from its surroundings.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#97

Post by spaetzleesser » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

drclau wrote: post #48

What bothers me quite a bit, both in more-or-less scientific conversations and in Science Fiction, is that we virtually always assume a human-like psychology for aliens, and we judge what they may want or not based on our thinking. Even when we think about potentially highly advanced aliens, we still assume they'll have a psychology similar to ours, and they'll just be more advanced technologically (ie. the aliens an…

LWhat bothers me quite a bit, both in more-or-less scientific conversations and in Science Fiction, is that we virtually always assume a human-like psychology for aliens, and we judge what they may want or not based on our thinking. Even when we think about potentially highly advanced aliens, we still assume they'll have a psychology similar to ours, and they'll just be more advanced technologically (ie. the aliens and ants analogy).”

Very true. A lot of our behaviors and instincts are based on how we procreate and the environment we live in. For example if you live forever or don’t have the pressure to procreate you will have a totally different perspective on the universe.

Lifeforms that have developed differently most likely would have motivations we can’t even fathom to understand.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#98

Post by nkrisc » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

nend wrote: post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

If there are aliens as advanced compared to us as we are to ants, that would imply to me that life is actually fairly abundant in the universe. However just as not every anthill gets studied by entomologists, perhaps there are simply too many planets with life for a galaxy-traversing civilization to study.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#99

Post by devilduck » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

nend wrote: post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

It's more interesting to me that it seems like many egos can not accept the idea that maybe they aren't that interesting after all.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#100

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #14

nend wrote: post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

Let’s say though it took several generations to travel to the ants, would we bother?

I think so. Not that long ago, humans spread across the world, first organically, then intentionally. We're at the infancy of spaceflight at the moment, the equivalent of putting food and water in a raft to go to the next island over.

We'll see humans on Mars in our lifetime, like the previous generation saw humans on the moon. Assuming the development and interest in spaceflight continues, we'll be seeing generation ships departing for the next solar system within the next 500 or so years (rough armchair prediction based on nothing at all). Of course, we have some massive problems to solve first, like biology, self-sustenance in deep space, cultural, financial, etc.

Anyway, my theory that we haven't seen other species yet is that space is vast and science fiction tech for light speed and beyond does not exist. If you have technology that can reach 1% of light speed, it'll take 10 million years to fly across just our galaxy. Humans evolved somewhere within that bracket. Even if the technology is there, you're seeing not just generations but entire species develop in the timescales of traveling the milky way.