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Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

scientificamerican.com

51–60 of 299 posts

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#51
I'm increasingly of the completely unresearched, lay- and baseless opinion that the great filter explanation has a fair bit of merit. Not so much from the idea that civilisations create their own destruction before they get off their rocks because of a technological race condition, but rather that intelligence as we see it is a knife-edge balancing act, and humankind is near to the maxima of ability as a result of intelligence.

If humans were a little less intelligent or a little less social, I don't think we'd have seen nearly the same the scientific advancement we have achieved. We'd either be unable to come up with the advancements, or too tribal to come together to benefit from collaboration. This would have a knock-on effect and I don't think we would've ended up in a situation where we're capable of rocketing out of our gravity well.

Conversely, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a hypothetical creature with more intelligence than us found itself too burdened by its intelligence - by way of wrestling with the philosophical challenges of existence - and ended up wiping itself out. Alternatively, I could easily believe that the biological foundations of what produces intellect quickly end up producing side-effects that inhibit achieving outcomes.

For example, we all-too-often see incredibly bright people struggle with depression, etc. due to their intellect. It feels like intellect itself might lead to additional struggles that are self-defeating. Moreover, neurodevelopmental conditions such as ASD seem to correlate to some degree with intelligence, with more extreme cases quickly become limiting. It sort of seems like intellect itself could become too overwhelming and quickly begin to put a handbrake on a species' development.

Additionally, human brains are incredibly expensive. We use about 20% of our total energy intake to power them. These days that's easy to handle, but a super-brain with even a bit higher energy requirement might quickly cause a species to struggle to find enough energy in its early era, before it's had a chance to really develop all of that scientific advancement that leads the surplus of to modern food production.

I mean, I am pretty much entirely talking out of my arse here and have no formal or informal education by which to really lend any credence to this hypothesis. Additionally, I totally realise that evolutionary pressures would tend towards these outcomes over time. However, evolution isn't exactly a precision tool, and so it would not surprise me that among many rolls of the 'intelligent life' dice, many burn themselves out due to not striking that balance well enough.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has a more informed take on this.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#52
> When weighing the risks involved in interactions with less-developed cultures such as ours, these advanced civilizations may choose to refrain from contact.

I think establishing communication with a more advanced civilization would be deeply disrupting to our culture. We would ascribe their cultural practices to their advancement, and get a bunch of people doing "alien cargo culting". Imagine they were strict vegetarians, or peaceful and kind meat eaters for that matter. It would completely disrupt our own evolution by injecting foreign memes into our culture.

You can also reverse the situation and suppose we are able to visit an alien planet where we find a rudimentary civilization which has customs that appear exotic to us. What would the experts recommend? The cynic would say we would go at war with them to take over their planet, but being realistic it is much more advantageous to study them without interfering. I think the evolution of conscious life in different conditions than our own planet must be of tremendous interest to other conscious life.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#53

> Fermi’s paradox is pretentious in that it assumes we humans have some sort of cosmic significance. No, it assumes that of all the incalculable advanced civilizations it hypothesizes to exist, at least some would be interested, not all, not the majority, not a significant number, but at least one in a million.

But if alien life is common, a reasonably likely outcome is that one species gains dominance and eliminates all other potential threats in the galaxy. In that case, we wouldn't see visitors if just that one species was incurious.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to rocks, we also study them ...

Is astrogeology (as etymologically oxymoronic as that is) already a subject?

That's basically what asteroid science is. It's such a big field that we're even sending probes to collect rocks.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#55
post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

> I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants

From Wikipedia for "ant": "More than 12,500 of an estimated total of 22,000 species have been classified."

From our human perspective, we are interested in ants. Everybody has seen ants. Everybody is curious about ants.

From an ant perspective, humans scarcely exist. There are 10,000 ant species that don't have a relationship with humans sufficient to deserve classification, let alone a name.

(I also want to wonder aloud why extra-terrestrials would be more interested in humans than in ants)

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#56
post #48

What bothers me quite a bit, both in more-or-less scientific conversations and in Science Fiction, is that we virtually always assume a human-like psychology for aliens, and we judge what they may want or not based on our thinking. Even when we think about potentially highly advanced aliens, we still assume they'll have a psychology similar to ours, and they'll just be more advanced technologically (ie. the aliens an…

The "Three Body Problem" trilogy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three-Body_Problem_(novel) ) makes an argument for why the behaviour of an intelligent species is going to mimic humans (or more accurately, humans' behaviour converge towards a universal set of behaviour - one of survival of the fittest). I don't want to spoil the books so i won't discuss any further, but worth a think about if you have read the books.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#57
post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

It's hard to be sure what a 10 or 100 million year old civilisation might still find interesting. I certainly wouldn't think a few hundred years of industrialisation, and a few decades of the information technology age gives us any real idea.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#58
post #10
post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

>There are professions that study ants. Not only that we've incorporated armies of scientists in to the public realm to advise on such envoirnmental/biodiversity policy issues. It's possible an Interstate Freeway project may not happen because an bunch of endangered ants live along its planned route.

This makes me think that one possible reason we havent observed any alien life is that similar to how we may avoid any sort of development or encroachment in an area containing an endangered species, we may have been marked off as too fragile to interact.

And humans are an incredibly fragile species from the perspective of a space faring civilization. If a meteor hits our planet, we are basically done. And even if that doesn't happen, we can only acquire raw materials and energy from our own planet, so we may basically just tap out all our resources before we learn to acquire it from somewhere else.

And then there is the fact that we love blowing each other up, which may not be a common trait amongst intelligent species.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#59
> Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

Because it makes good sci-fi!

But in all seriousness, we have so little tangible evidence of extraterrestrial life that there's no way to answer this question. It always comes down to opinion and speculation.

Re: Why do we assume extraterrestrials might want to visit us?

#60
post #2

>We may be a phenomenon as uninteresting to them as ants are to us; after all, when we’re walking down the sidewalk we rarely if ever examine every ant along our path. Not really the most convincing argument. There are professions that study ants. And I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that has a casual interest in observing ants. Pretty sure aliens would still be interested in us even if we were as primi…

I also casually deploy diatomaceous earth and other methods to exterminate ants when I come across them in or around the house. I’m glad the wandering aliens have not yet decided to use this strategy. Especially if they would find earth a desirable location for some colonial purposes.
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