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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#951

Post by pelliphant »

sojournerc wrote: post #885
pelliphant wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BLM is protesting against systematic racism, the trumpers where trying to overturn an election. Why would you even try to group those two things together? How could it possibly be a problem that "the media" doesn't consider those two things equal?

It doesn't matter. Violence for a political reason is terrorism[1]. I'm pointing out media hypocrisy, that doesn't mean I'm condoning any violence. Violence is wrong in support of BLM, it's wrong in support of Trump. The ends do not justify those means (and in fact are likely to be counterproductive). [1] ter•ror•ism tĕr′ə-rĭz″əm► n. The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the…

Terrorism is one of those words that are a bit hard to define.

If you would use the definition you wrote here, a lot of things would be considered terrorism. There would probably be more terrorists than non-terrorists in the world then..

But anyway, I think we can agree on the "violence is wrong"-part, and the counterproductive part.

But saying that if any form of violence occured during a protest, then those protests should be considered equal, is, well, I don't even know what to call it; Dishonest?

Now, what I really disagree about is the "I'm pointing out media hypocrisy"-part. I really don't think you are doing that, I think that what you are doing is, complaining that "the media" seems to agree more with me than with you on this issue, and then phrasing it like your point of view is objectively correct.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#952

Post by pseudalopex »

philwelch wrote: post #948
pseudalopex wrote: post #937

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're talking about Seattle. I followed the news enough to know you've misrepresented it. Unarmed protesters wanted to protest in front of the police station. The police blocked them. The protests grew day by day because the police kept escalating to violence. Then the police suddenly abandoned the station and the area. The protesters didn't ask for it. The mayor and police chief denied ordering it. The…

> The last shooting did involve armed protesters working as security guards. It wasn't a case of mistaken identity though. The teenagers drove at the barricades minutes after erratically driving through the occupied park. Setting aside the notion of gunmen manning barricades on public streets here—the SUV they fired on was, by many reports, a different SUV from the vehicle before. Regardless, this is still the exact…

The city placed the barricades. People driving into protesters was common.[1] Other people had threatened to harm the Seattle protesters. The police had abandoned the area. Carrying guns on public streets is legal there.

The SUV the guards shot was recorded driving through the park.

Many reports said shots were fired from that vehicle. They didn't find any guns so probably not. Internet detectives decided the shots were fired from a different SUV recorded speeding away afterward. But it was actually recorded speeding toward the area. And people feared getting rammed not just shot.

They were protesting police brutality against peaceful or restrained black people. That isn't exactly like an oncoming SUV.

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/08/vehicl...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#953

Post by thatcat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #596
abduhl wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly think that THE defining event of Trump's presidency is going to be the Capitol riot? You don't think it's the bungled response to coronavirus that landed us all locked up in our houses for over a year, the assassination of an Iranian leader on another sovereign's soil, the trade war with China, the tax reform bill he pushed through, the Mueller probe, the BLM protests, the "stolen" SCOTUS seats, or any n…

How many of those other things was he impeached and subsequently condemned by the Republican floor leader in the Senate for?

None of those threatened Senate directly. They are simply protecting themselves.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#954

Post by bsanr2 »

jcadam wrote: post #891
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took far right terrorism seriously in the 1870s. They more or less stamped out the (original) KKK while simultaneously giving the south the requisite autonomy to enact Jim Crow. Obviously Jim Crow doesn't square with our modern view but at the time the lack of some systemic way to keep the black people down was a serious grievance that a lot of people had. The government cracked down on the extremists who were s…

Allowing the riots to continue unabated over the summer was a serious mistake. It fed a perception that political violence and intimidation was a viable means to get what you want.

A take like this represents a woeful ignorance of American history.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#955

Post by bsanr2 »

neartheplain wrote: post #876
bsanr2 wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that institutions are always highly resistant to the notion of right-wing, white violence being a serious threat, rooted specifically in its right-wing whiteness. See the Columbine shootings and the frantic finger pointing at video games, Satanism, and bullying, all to avoid facing the fact that what happened could be most easily slotted into the legacy of white dude rage in America. The dynami…

* See the Columbine shootings and the frantic finger pointing at video games, Satanism, and bullying, all to avoid facing the fact that what happened could be most easily slotted into the legacy of white dude rage in America.* There was no racial element to the Columbine shooting, at all. Racializing it as “white dude rage” is inflammatory and disgusting.

What happened at Columbine was the logical conclusion to the upholding of an American ethos that affirms a privilege to arms and violence as a valid response to grievance, which is itself rooted in our history of (race-based) slavery. More directly, the Columbine shooters were influenced by Timothy McVeigh and the militia movement, who was and which were explicitly white supremacist.

What's disgusting is that this keeps happening, and that white Americans are so married to this ethos that they'll sacrifice their children to maintain it, and that people like you would rather flag and dismiss a post pointing out this dynamic than introspect. What's inflammatory is this purposeful and obstinate denial, while all the world watches in pity.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#956

Post by rj_kidwin »

newbie789 wrote: post #681
rj_kidwin wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further down in their comment they cite statistics about variant violent crime rates by race, where African Americans commit more than 50% of violent crime, which seems in line with your cited non-lethal force rates. Violent criminals receiving proportionate rates of violent force doesn't stand out as a disparity.

>African Americans commit more than 50% of violent crime, Out of curiosity, I understand that you're simply citing statistics from a source but I'd like to know if you think this reflects reality? If so, what reason would you suggest creates this?

I believe it reflects reality, or is at least a strong approximation of reality.

I think the cause to first order is economics. Second and third order terms with much less but still contributing importance are political (decades of policy failures like the War on Drugs and welfare expansion, for-profit prisons, etc), and cultural (there is far too much celebration of crime culture, gang culture, and respect culture that normalizes the state of things in the black community).

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#957

Post by hetspookjee »

seisvelas wrote: post #734
hetspookjee wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but I'm having increasingly more difficulty with the term Terrorist. How'd you call American intrusions in sovereign states? Just somewhat recently the drone strike of the General Soleimani on sovereign grounds were an act of terrorism if perceived through the eyes of most Iranians, and possibly Iraqis as the strike was on their ground. Terrorist is a term that is stretched and applied beyond meaning.

This reminded me of the song "Pirates & Emperors", which you might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQBWGo7pef8 Too long, didn't listen: If you rob with a little ship, you're a "pirate", but if you steal with a big fleet, thou art "emperor".

Thanks. I really appreciate the link. Especially the reference to duck typing, haha.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#958

Post by [deleted] »

bsanr2 wrote: post #955
neartheplain wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* See the Columbine shootings and the frantic finger pointing at video games, Satanism, and bullying, all to avoid facing the fact that what happened could be most easily slotted into the legacy of white dude rage in America.* There was no racial element to the Columbine shooting, at all. Racializing it as “white dude rage” is inflammatory and disgusting.

What happened at Columbine was the logical conclusion to the upholding of an American ethos that affirms a privilege to arms and violence as a valid response to grievance, which is itself rooted in our history of (race-based) slavery. More directly, the Columbine shooters were influenced by Timothy McVeigh and the militia movement, who was and which were explicitly white supremacist. What's disgusting is that this ke…

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#959

Post by jki275 »

ryathal wrote: post #905
Barrin92 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

another thing that immediately came to mind after the capitol rioting was the standoff with Cliven Bundy and an article I saw a few years ago[1]. I even remembered that at the time there were people on Fox who were downplaying this as some sort of patriotic resistance against the government. Imagine if someone started a caliphate on US territory, I'm sure we'd be hearing the same kind of arguments /s "Cliven Bundy an…

The Bundy thing was 100% government needlessly escalating a matter, that should have been some lawyers negotiating a reasonable fees and promises to not intentionally graze on federal land. If that failed they simply could have arrested him driving in to town or some equally mundane action.

The government tried to negotiate with him for something like forty years.

He had no intention of complying or paying any of his bills.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#960

Post by Railsify »

austincheney wrote: post #736
Railsify wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Members of Congress will use this event as a catalyst for fundraising, soon after the election they will draft legislation that threatens to control and/or regulate the tech giants. Shortly after that the lobbyists representing Big Tech get wind of this new legislation on the horizon and donations will flow like a river to the PACs and re-election campaigns, then the proposed legislation will be shelved.

> to control and/or regulate the tech giants What is it exactly that qualifies Facebook to be a tech company? A database? A website? They display advertising.

They move information around using software datacenters and the internet.
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