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Have we already been visited by aliens?

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Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#211

Post by jvanderbot »

sjcoles wrote: post #20
BruceEel wrote: post #12

In the linked chat with Lex Fridman, Loeb also mentioned how such objects are likely to be zipping by essentially all the time. It'd be great if by the time we spot the next one (of whatever nature) we had a probe/robot/something able to catch up with it (or better, catch it!)

If you can figure out how to generate that much delta V you've solved solar system level space travel.

Nah. When it was discovered, there was a talk at JPL on how to intercept it. You can generate out-of-plane motion by slingshotting off Jupiter. You can arrive with it (or rather speed past), but you can't land or sample it with today's tech.

Also, there have been some studies since on it. https://www.kiss.caltech.edu/workshops/constellations/conste...

And lots of people got in on the action with their own studies: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=intercept+interstellar+...

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#212

Post by BobbyJo »

Retric wrote: post #118
jonathankoren wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it’s true that it didn’t produce any detectable radio signals, it have an unexplained force acting on it. It was this acceleration away from the sun that spawned the theories of undetected outgassing or light pressure. As for “extreme velocity”, that’s a bit a canard. It’s traveling at interstellar speeds, and humanity has already has five interstellar probes today. Now none of these indicate that it’s probe —…

I chose unusual as it had thrust consistent with comets. After ruling out solar-radiation pressure, drag- and friction-like forces, interaction with solar wind for a highly magnetized object, and geometric effects originating from 'Oumuamua potentially being composed of several spatially separated bodies or having a pronounced offset between its photocentre and centre of mass, we find comet-like outgassing to be a ph…

If you listen to his podcast with Lex he explains that the outgassing needed to give it the acceleration it had would require 10% of it's mass to cook off, as well as all of it had to be hydrogen else we'd have seen the trail. Why consider a comet made entirely of hydrogen more likely than an alien probe?

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#214

Post by alisonkisk »

mrbonner wrote: post #100
silicon2401 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by 1993 series do you mean the 1993 season? I was confused at first because I thought it was from the 80s and just confirmed that it came out in 87. Anyway, definitely an excellent show. I watched it a bit as a kid when it aired on G4 and I've been meaning to get back into it.

I watch it on Netflix and the title shows 1993. I am confused as well but I realized that 1993 is the last season. The show itself was in the 80s.

Netflix dates series by their last episode, in a deceptive attempt to make their catalog look fresher.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#215

Post by eloff »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #181
eloff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very common in science. New theories are usually rejected and ridiculed until/if they develop enough evidence behind them to sway people. Some careers are destroyed. Some scientists are only vindicated posthumously. The process can take many decades. Scientists, like most humans, are not that open-minded and are subject to the same group-think blind spots. I think if we could get better at being open-minded a…

This is a good thing. If we entertained every crackpot theory we would waste tons of time. it's good for there to be some gatekeeping. Of course sometimes they're wrong - but so what? That will come out if there is actual evidence.

There is a balance here, you are correct, but I think we currently skew too far toward gatekeeping.

Too little gatekeeping means trouble finding the signal through the noise and time wasted on dead ends. Too much and good ideas get neglected or squashed for far too long. There is a cost to both.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#216

Post by alisonkisk »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #84
notahacker wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even for other humans, and not just because we can't or won't foot the bill for more education and medication, but also because encouraging relatively primitive tribes to abandon their traditions and join the modern world is widely seen as unethical.

I see no issues with telling tribes or ancient cultures or fledgling species if their beliefs about reality are incorrect. Otherwise those faulty beliefs could lead the species to extinction.

Thats precisely backwards. Extinction threats on Earth come from the "modern" cultures not the ancient ones.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#217

Post by JALTU »

irrational wrote: post #68
rtx wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet we find this to be a recurring theme, I wonder when this switch happens. From a curious boy/girl who becomes a scientist to a conservative.

Grad school.

Reinforced repeatedly with career/publication steps, homeownership, children's expenses, neighbor buying a Tesla first, etc.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#218

Post by sailingparrot »

I don't understand what is happening with Avi Loeb. I was not familiar with him before Omouamoua but from what I gathered he is a respected academic in the field. So how can someone like that be so disingenuous about this topic?

There is currently basically no evidence whatsoever that Omouamoua is an alien constructs. If we are generous we can consider this at most a plausible explanation among others (certainly not the most plausible), and yet he is just pretending like this is not the case and putting on the front page of his book definitive statements like "The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth", or saying that since all other possible explanation have been excluded (which is categorically wrong) then we must accept the remaining explanation that this an alien object.

What can push an Harvard academic to just disregard any scientific ethic and just go full-on junk science? Is it just a concession to sell more books or gain more fame?

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#219

Post by eloff »

Joeri wrote: post #176
eloff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very common in science. New theories are usually rejected and ridiculed until/if they develop enough evidence behind them to sway people. Some careers are destroyed. Some scientists are only vindicated posthumously. The process can take many decades. Scientists, like most humans, are not that open-minded and are subject to the same group-think blind spots. I think if we could get better at being open-minded a…

Ah, but my sister always says I’m not open-minded because I won’t read all her antivaxer info. If we give all ideas equal credence, better ideas will not win out.

I'm not suggesting that being open minded requires giving all ideas equal credence, that's a strawman. Just that us humans tend to have strongly held opinions that are wrong far too often - like your sister in this case. If she was more open minded about her own beliefs that would be beneficial.
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