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Have we already been visited by aliens?

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Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#181

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

eloff wrote: post #86
bostonsre wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculing scientists for plausible hypothesis seems very unscientific.

This is very common in science. New theories are usually rejected and ridiculed until/if they develop enough evidence behind them to sway people. Some careers are destroyed. Some scientists are only vindicated posthumously. The process can take many decades. Scientists, like most humans, are not that open-minded and are subject to the same group-think blind spots. I think if we could get better at being open-minded a…

This is a good thing. If we entertained every crackpot theory we would waste tons of time. it's good for there to be some gatekeeping. Of course sometimes they're wrong - but so what? That will come out if there is actual evidence.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#182

Post by anamexis »

Joeri wrote: post #176
eloff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very common in science. New theories are usually rejected and ridiculed until/if they develop enough evidence behind them to sway people. Some careers are destroyed. Some scientists are only vindicated posthumously. The process can take many decades. Scientists, like most humans, are not that open-minded and are subject to the same group-think blind spots. I think if we could get better at being open-minded a…

Ah, but my sister always says I’m not open-minded because I won’t read all her antivaxer info. If we give all ideas equal credence, better ideas will not win out.

I think antivax claims have been given equal credence, they've just been found false.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#183

Post by deeeeplearning »

jwally wrote: post #178
johnisgood wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. Even PubMed is ridden with ridiculous stuff. PubMed! To give you an example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ Thankfully we can do our own research, see by whom it has been cited, in what journal it has been published, and so forth. You can easily tell that this is quite an unimportant and incredible one. Of course you could tell it yourself after having read it that it is nonsense.

Are there any guides / heuristics on how a layperson can evaluate technical literature? For example my mother-in-law is starting to micro-dose lithium and cited this article as evidence: https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2020/12/lithium-and-a... Which cites 19 medical journals. The website itself reeks of bullshit, but how can I tell if the journals it cites are valid or just woo?

Looking at the Impact Factor of a Journal can help but it's not perfect. For example Nature and Science, generally considered the most prestigious journals in the world, have impact factors around 1000 and smaller but still quality niche Physics journals might be in the low hundreds.

The bottom line is that as a Layperson it would be extremely difficult to vet the validity of any given paper let alone whole journals.

https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#184

Post by wait_a_minute »

stocknoob wrote: post #113
rmah wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well no, but people would be robust and healthy, without disease. And IMO, that's a positive even if all our other failings are still there.

For the individual, yes, but for society? Death is nature's term limit. Without it we'd be under a Pharaoh with bronze-age ethics.

Unless we figure out how to drastically extend our lifespans or do away with death altogether, although who even knows if it's possible...

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#185

Post by wait_a_minute »

Coriolis3 wrote: post #165
wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

Check out Iain M. Banks's "Culture" novels for a sci fi society that takes that approach to other civilizations. The Culture tries to raise up every lesser species of aliens to their own level of hedonist, post-scarcity wealth and technology. "The Player of Games" is both a good introduction to the series and an example of their cultural outreach at work.

Thanks a ton, will definitely check those out as I've not yet seen any writing that explores this idea.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#186

Post by jzer0cool »

We should plan for another such event should Oumuamua (or another) arrives again. I would find it fascinating to land on such a device where we can place a beacon on it and watch it through space. This may also help Oumuamua (should it be a probe) to also detect a friendly landing on its ship for the remote alien to detect.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#187

Post by wait_a_minute »

sterlind wrote: post #121
wait_a_minute wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no issues with telling tribes or ancient cultures or fledgling species if their beliefs about reality are incorrect. Otherwise those faulty beliefs could lead the species to extinction.

There's education and then there's coercion. The Amish know that technology and modern society exist, and they even participate some for work, but they don't bring it back home, and they haven't altered their way of life. Coercion is like the Indian boarding school programs in the Pacific Northwest. Taking Indian children away from their parents and beating them if they spoke their native languages, with the goal of…

I'm okay with not coercing someone into something. As long as it's a choice, I see no harm in that. Although ultimately we need to make sure that people are actually educated enough to make an informed choice, and aren't instead so steeped in their incorrect views of reality that they can't make any progress...

What I'm saying can definitely be abused or misinterpreted if someone wants to justify atrocities, but that's their negative interpretation and their choice. The positive interpretation here would be that I'd prefer a choice for anyone who wants to be Amish, as long as being Amish doesn't mean that you're completely trapped in that society if you're born into it. Some ideologies trap the mind.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#188

Post by wait_a_minute »

JackFr wrote: post #95
wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

> as humanly possible There’s some post-colonial baggage to unpack there.

Only if you choose to read that into my comment or to be negative about the future.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#190

Post by wait_a_minute »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #102
wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

Already done for indians. Impossibility of FTL travel just saved all life in universe from you.

The trend of our species has been to become more moral and nice to one another. Read up on how humans viewed one another 1,000 years ago or 10,000 years ago and see the trend. There's no reason to believe or to ONLY believe that we'd be a violent and evil species if we became space-fairing and had FTL travel. In such a far future, I'd like to choose to work towards and to think about having a society that is even more moral than what it is now.
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