Anthony Levandowski Pardoned • Hacker News Board

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#891

Post by simonh » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #747

simonh wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break it to you, but as with many things in the US constitution, the reason the President can pardon people is because it's a modified copy of the British constitutional system of the time. The House is Parliament, the Senate is the House of Lords, and the president can pardon people because King George III could and the office of the presidency is a limited term elected kingship. Executive orders are Royal…

While pardon power originated from British law, the reason we kept it was what the OP referred to (see the federalist papers [1]). When forming the government the founders didn't just blindly copy British government. There was a lot of debate over what to keep and what to omit (For example, we don't have a king. Presidents were seen as servants not as rulers). Pardon power is mostly a direct copy of British pardon po…

That's a perfectly reasonable take especially on the federal/state separation which was novel, but is it really not possible there was some back-rationalisation going on?

The British system was very familiar, and while it had potential flaws visible to them at the time they were known familiar flaws. I find it doubtful that someone coming up with an entirely novel and unfamiliar system would have got anywhere at all, no matter how rational and well argued it was. People like familiar and that can affect their judgement. Just worth considering.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#892

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

eevilspock wrote: post #845

philwelch wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive orders aren’t in the Constitution and the President doesn’t have the power to adjourn Congress.

Your point about executive orders is not quite correct. https://lawshelf.com/shortvideoscontentview/the-power-of-the...

Wikipedia notes:

> The United States Constitution does not have a provision that explicitly permits the use of executive orders. Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Constitution simply states: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Sections 2 and 3 describe the various powers and duties of the president, including "he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"

They're constitutional--in the sense that the President has the legal authority to issue orders to the rest of the executive branch--but they are certainly not an explicit provision of the Constitution explicitly modeled after the royal decrees of the British monarchy.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#893

Post by rasz » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

me_me_me wrote: post #174

The fact that even fox news was onboard with pardoning Julian Assange and then he pardons Levandowski is... well ironic is an understatement. I am failing to find a word that encapsulates my feelings.

Im sure Biden will pardon Assange as the first thing he dos in office. After all its a good change, right?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#894

Post by VikingCoder » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

paul7986 wrote: post #819

VikingCoder wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that how it works? Multiple wrongs make a right?

karma .... which is how it should be no? You do bad ..no matter what you do it will come back at you!

I'm confused how you can watch the actions of human people, and ascribe the outcomes to "karma."

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#895

Post by mywittyname » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #565

mywittyname wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, he end up being the first presidential candidate bankrupted by the position. The dude's primary asset, his brand, is not completely toxic and can no longer be used to prop up his other failed ventures. And the only bankers wiling to finance him will the the predatory ones, who will all extract every penny left then leave him with nothing.

> And the only bankers wiling to finance him will the the predatory ones, who will all extract every penny left then leave him with nothing. Oh boy, are you going to be in for a nasty surprise. Trump is going to get more powerful after this mess, but it will likely tear the GOP apart. And don't kid yourself that the Democrats love the idea of having him as an enemy if he ever runs again. Most of what you're watching…

Honestly, I get the impression that he's easily outflanked by smart people. And that something about his personality drives people to take advantage of him. That impression comes from his apparent business incompetence. He is capable of screwing up "sure things" such as casinos and hotels. Best I can tell, he ends up getting a raw deal, then proceeds to make the shit roll down hill by screwing over people down stream of him (i.e., not paying contractors).

He's clearly a capable actor. He pretends, rather convincingly, to be this amazing, confident, shrewd businessman. And I think a lot of people idolize him because he embodies what they think of when they think of a smart, successful business person. But I think real smart, successful business people spend two minutes with him, and paint him as a rube.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#896

Post by mamon » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

jonp888 wrote: post #543

ggcdn wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Supreme Court doesn’t make the rules, it just interprets them. The rules are made by elected representatives.

They might not be directly elected, but they are political. If they weren't political we wouldn't divide them into liberal and conserative jusices. It seems like everyone already knows how they would 'interpret' any case involving abortion. This doesn't seem to be such a problem in other countries. I don't really understand if that's because the judges are purposely appointed to be as partisan as possible, or whether…

That isn't as big problem as you paint it. Yes, Trump was particularily "lucky" (for the lack of the better word) that during his single term in the office 3 Supreme Justices died, so he could appoint replacements. But Obama, George W. Bush, Clinton, George Bush senior, they each appointed 2 Justices. So it seems to me that the system is deliberately designed to capture long-term political trends - Democratic presidents appoint democratic judges, Repliblicans appoint Republicans, and the net result is: Supreme Court reflects society's deeply ingrained values, not its current mood.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#897

Post by rirarobo » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

barbacoa wrote: post #674

_qbjt wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump supporters have done nothing but alienate and engage in acts of harassment and violence against non-white folks, religious minorities and members of the LGBTQ community for the past 4-5 years. Should we be civil toward members of the KKK as well? Why is it always on us to be nice to people who hate us and want us dead?

Just like how you've been brainwashed by the TV into thinking the "others" are evil, trump people are brainwashed into thinking you hate them and want them dead. Both sides see themselves as the victim and the others as the attacker. >Why is it always on us to be nice to people who hate us and want us dead? Do you see how this is perpetuating the problem?

I am from the Deep South. I have evangelical family members who have disowned others because of their beliefs. Who wish for the Kingdom of God to be realized, so that the non-believers can spend eternity in suffering. I grew up with peers who told me I would burn in hell for believing in evolution. Peers from middle class backgrounds with financial security, who then worry about "white genocide" and the "great replacement".

I have not been brainwashed by the TV to think these types of people are evil. I know them intimately. I know that they are multifaceted human beings, capable of love, but also capable of hate and great harm. I have family members that do believe other races are below them, aunts and uncles old enough to have fought against civil rights and desegregation. Much like Trump, who was 22 when MLK was assassinated. Grandparents who mutter about the war of northern aggression. They are still alive today, there are millions of people like them, and they vote. They push real policies that present a real threat to many Americans.

I have moved away from the South, and have new friends and family, who have directly been affected by the Muslim Ban, changes to immigration policy, and the rhetoric of Trump and his supporters these past four years. This is real harm.

"Both sides" are not the same, and there are real victims of such bigotry. To deny this reality perpetuates these problems.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#898

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

emn13 wrote: post #433

DevX101 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constitution has some excellent checks and balances but the blanket pardon isn't one of them. The pardon doesn't do anything to address systemic problems in the justice system and has become a channel for doling out political favors.

This myth that the US constitution is in any way "good" is weird. It's one of the earliest; and fortunately others leared from its mistakes. Including the US itself, when it had considerable influence in drafting the WW2 losers constitutions, which uncoincidentally are quite different from the US. Checks and balances essentially don't work in the US. The best bit is simply a decent judiciary, but that was mostly copi…

> name 1 check/balance that's actually particularly good!

The overarching one is the government being a triumvirate. If one branch overreaches, the other two can keep it in check. Triumvirates have historically been stable governments. Even in the Soviet Union - the Party, the Army, the Police.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#899

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #502

n4r9 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also only commenting on what the parent wrote to be fair. My point is that being disappointed not to be involved in a death - as that comment suggests - is a level of callousness that goes well beyond accepting the cost of progress.

Here's the context in question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25847994

"Levandowski denies saying this."

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#900

Post by eadmund » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

emn13 wrote: post #806

war1025 wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't think the original senate had states that had 80X the representation by population, as we have today between CA and WY. I would argue the "false-positive" state that in this case is California. Imagine if the entire Eastern seaboard was divided into three States. That would be equally imbalanced.

Texas is only slightly smaller. But perhaps splitting both in 3 (or whatever) would be a good start. Or split any state that has more than 4% of the nations population (that would include FL and NY). Practical hacks like that might mitigate the imbalance, but really - the senate needs proportional representation too. It's OK that small states are slightly over-represented, but the current state of affairs is pretty c…

> the senate needs proportional representation too

No, the Seventeenth Amendment should be repealed and state legislatures should be required to appoint senators. The United States form a federal government, not a unitary state; that means the several states should be represented.

> If the senate were proportional, we could simply abolish the electoral college with little loss; just let congress elect the president and be done with it.

Alternatively, state legislatures could appoint electors. Or maybe they could appoint two electors, and the people of the state could vote for the rest.