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Linux Running on Apple M1

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Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#161

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

oblio wrote: post #156
mmphosis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, many more people are using phone and tablets, than Windows and many more people are using Windows, than Macs and many more people are using Macs, than desktop Linuxes and many more people are using desktop Linuxes, than desktop BSDs. So the anecdata goes against your mountain of anecdata that goes against a world of anecdata from people using those platforms.

Yeah, because when I use a phone or tablet I have to worry about installing my own drivers :-) Apples, oranges.

When was the last time you installed your own drivers on a desktop Linux system, and for what?

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#162

Post by my123 »

viraptor wrote: post #155
pantalaimon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But patches have already been submitted upstream https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20210120132717.3958...

This is from the Asahi project though, not the corellium one linked here. Also, it's only a tiny part of what's needed.

It is not.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#163

Post by heavyset_go »

midrus wrote: post #84

Linux might run, but good luck with the drivers. And good luck with it keeping working with future upgrades of both, hardware and software. Heck, even today it is pretty difficult to get things working reliably unless it is a thinkpad or some other Linux friendly brand. A Mac with subpar support for a webcam, energy saving, suspend/resume, the trackpad, brightness/volume controls, etc is not a laptop, it's an expensi…

Agreed. Check out the state of Linux support on Intel Macs that were released in and after 2016[1], it's abysmal. Once Apple started adding non-standard hardware, Linux support never caught up.

It isn't like the lack of support is Linux developers' fault. Apple doesn't provide datasheets for their hardware, and they don't cooperate with developers writing drivers for their custom hardware.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of ARM SoCs that "run Linux", but that doesn't mean much because they're actually running Linux forks, and someone needs to maintain those forks, and build and release custom images for each SoC. I don't see M1 Macs diverting from that fate without significant support from Apple themselves.

[1] https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux/

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#164

Post by heavyset_go »

oblio wrote: post #156
mmphosis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, many more people are using phone and tablets, than Windows and many more people are using Windows, than Macs and many more people are using Macs, than desktop Linuxes and many more people are using desktop Linuxes, than desktop BSDs. So the anecdata goes against your mountain of anecdata that goes against a world of anecdata from people using those platforms.

Yeah, because when I use a phone or tablet I have to worry about installing my own drivers :-) Apples, oranges.

The great thing about Linux is that almost every driver is included with the kernel itself, so you don't need to worry about installing drivers. Of course, there are vendors who don't like to cooperate with Linux developers, and release kernel-tainting drivers outside of the mainline kernel.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#165

Post by spockz »

titzer wrote: post #133
my123 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can pinpoint which pages are affected (in most cases you can), you can just add that range to the blacklist. Can work in the meantime, before you have a new machine.

There were dozens of ranges, too many to blacklist. Which made me suspect that it might actually be the memory controller. In which case, it's totally F'd. But given this I went for total data evac.

Couldn’t you just move the disk to another device and read it from there instead of risking data corruption or going through all the hassle of comparing checksums?

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#166

Post by Skunkleton »

heavyset_go wrote: post #163
midrus wrote: post #84

Linux might run, but good luck with the drivers. And good luck with it keeping working with future upgrades of both, hardware and software. Heck, even today it is pretty difficult to get things working reliably unless it is a thinkpad or some other Linux friendly brand. A Mac with subpar support for a webcam, energy saving, suspend/resume, the trackpad, brightness/volume controls, etc is not a laptop, it's an expensi…

Agreed. Check out the state of Linux support on Intel Macs that were released in and after 2016[1], it's abysmal. Once Apple started adding non-standard hardware, Linux support never caught up. It isn't like the lack of support is Linux developers' fault. Apple doesn't provide datasheets for their hardware, and they don't cooperate with developers writing drivers for their custom hardware. There are hundreds, if not…

> that doesn't mean much because they're actually running Linux forks

Many of these Arm SoCs are running linux forks because there are some terrible baked in drivers, and no spec associated with them. Still, that is a step ahead of the M1 as there are at least drivers that don't have to be decompiled and reverse engineered.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#167

Post by viraptor »

my123 wrote: post #162
viraptor wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from the Asahi project though, not the corellium one linked here. Also, it's only a tiny part of what's needed.

It is not.

The patch submission is from Marcan who started asahi. This (HN) post links to a tweet from the CTO of corellium.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#168

Post by shimonabi »

arghwhat wrote: post #102
midrus wrote: post #84

Linux might run, but good luck with the drivers. And good luck with it keeping working with future upgrades of both, hardware and software. Heck, even today it is pretty difficult to get things working reliably unless it is a thinkpad or some other Linux friendly brand. A Mac with subpar support for a webcam, energy saving, suspend/resume, the trackpad, brightness/volume controls, etc is not a laptop, it's an expensi…

Funny, that's how I feel with Windows and Mac. I grab a machine and install Linux, and it works more or less out of the box. Maybe a few fixable quirks. And I don't use Thinkpads. I try to use Windows or macos, and it's a coin toss. Windows handling USB like hot garbage (hub balancing/buffer sizes leading to devices unable to activate, webcams glitching, input lagging at random intervals), display issues (macos doesn…

Then tell me why my Elantech touchpad keeps freezing randomly on my Huawei Matebook 14d running Linux, but works fine on Windows.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#169

Post by eyelidlessness »

varispeed wrote: post #152
eyelidlessness wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I’m amazed Apple even cares enough one way or another that they mentioned Linux virtualization in the M1 announcement. But it’s not a middle finger, this was more or less exactly how they handled multiboot on Intel: let the community figure out a solution, see if it gets uptake, support it with a first party solution if it does. That’s how we got Boot Camp, as there was a lot of interest in booting Windo…

So essentially Apple is exploiting its consumers and get free research and development without having to pay salaries and tax? Probably that's why they are worth so much. I am only amazed that there is so many people willing to do this job for Apple for free - it would be a different ball game is macOS was open source, but sacrificing your own time and resources to enhance a commercial product... people are weird.

That’s... an incredibly bold take, especially on a forum operated by VCs, who certainly are familiar with the concept of finding product-market fit. Apple is observing the interests of people who use their products to help prioritize product development decisions.

Maybe the people doing this for free are just interested in benefitting from the result? As many people who work for free on open source do.

As far as I’m aware, there is no free (as in beer) hardware that runs Linux. Someone has put the effort into running Linux on every single for-profit/for-pay platform it runs on.

Are you under the mistaken impression I was suggesting that Apple waits for a community solution to be developed then packages that as a product? As far as I’m aware they didn’t do that with Boot Camp, but instead offered in-house drivers and blessed boot loaders and proprietary UI/UX for accessing both.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#170

Post by saagarjha »

Geminidog wrote: post #56
saagarjha wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition is fine, but the "spiciness" was really just drama+pettiness on both sides :/ I'm hoping they're both past that now, as they should know better, but having two competing projects unable to assume good faith from each other is generally not healthy at all.

The more spiciness and completive things are the better the overall results. We all like to think that collaboration, harmony and love drives innovation but much of innovation is built around intense rivalry and competition as well. Don't be idealistic to a fault, much of the qualities we view as petty exist because they passed millions of years of natural selection. Those who compete, thrive. Winner takes all.

I take it that you are wholly unfamiliar with the jailbreaking scene?
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