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Linux Running on Apple M1

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Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#151

Post by sneak »

midrus wrote: post #84

Linux might run, but good luck with the drivers. And good luck with it keeping working with future upgrades of both, hardware and software. Heck, even today it is pretty difficult to get things working reliably unless it is a thinkpad or some other Linux friendly brand. A Mac with subpar support for a webcam, energy saving, suspend/resume, the trackpad, brightness/volume controls, etc is not a laptop, it's an expensi…

The first week that XNU ran on ARM, it didn't have very good hardware support either.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#152

Post by varispeed »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #87
varispeed wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it actually require any serious development or it is just mostly tweaking and changing things here and there? I am sorry if that sounds ignorant, but I thought these are just low hanging fruits to harvest. Also why Apple wouldn't do that themselves? To me it is an opposite to "nerd marketing", a big middle finger to Linux users - essentially "you are on your own".

To be honest I’m amazed Apple even cares enough one way or another that they mentioned Linux virtualization in the M1 announcement. But it’s not a middle finger, this was more or less exactly how they handled multiboot on Intel: let the community figure out a solution, see if it gets uptake, support it with a first party solution if it does. That’s how we got Boot Camp, as there was a lot of interest in booting Windo…

So essentially Apple is exploiting its consumers and get free research and development without having to pay salaries and tax? Probably that's why they are worth so much. I am only amazed that there is so many people willing to do this job for Apple for free - it would be a different ball game is macOS was open source, but sacrificing your own time and resources to enhance a commercial product... people are weird.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#153

Post by IOT_Apprentice »

midrus wrote: post #84

Linux might run, but good luck with the drivers. And good luck with it keeping working with future upgrades of both, hardware and software. Heck, even today it is pretty difficult to get things working reliably unless it is a thinkpad or some other Linux friendly brand. A Mac with subpar support for a webcam, energy saving, suspend/resume, the trackpad, brightness/volume controls, etc is not a laptop, it's an expensi…

Linux does run, and it also runs on the M1.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#154

Post by saagarjha »

titzer wrote: post #147
saagarjha wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, right, I just disabled that: https://gist.github.com/saagarjha/d1ddd98537150e4a09520ed3ed...

Interesting. Do you work for Apple? The qemu patches that split up the RX/RW jit regions are maddeningly complicated. I'm curious if anyone has suggested this solution to them?

I don't. To be clear, this isn't an actual fix, it just turns off W^X enforcement altogether. It's certainly not something that should be merged upstream–the real fix should be to adopt W^X in the JIT (which is more complicated, as you may have seen).

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#155

Post by viraptor »

pantalaimon wrote: post #71
viraptor wrote: post #7

There's a bit of competition now going between asahi and corellium. While most of the spicy tweets have been removed, there's a summary https://twitter.com/AsahiLinux/status/1350547056679477250 Essentially, while this project may be quicker to get visible results, they may not be able to release all the code kosher for merging upstream. It will be interesting to see the next steps.

But patches have already been submitted upstream https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20210120132717.3958...

This is from the Asahi project though, not the corellium one linked here. Also, it's only a tiny part of what's needed.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#156

Post by oblio »

mmphosis wrote: post #140
oblio wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, many more people are using Windows, than Macs and many more people are using Macs, than desktop Linuxes. So your anecdata goes against a mountain of anecdata from people using those platforms.

The thing is, many more people are using phone and tablets, than Windows and many more people are using Windows, than Macs and many more people are using Macs, than desktop Linuxes and many more people are using desktop Linuxes, than desktop BSDs. So the anecdata goes against your mountain of anecdata that goes against a world of anecdata from people using those platforms.

Yeah, because when I use a phone or tablet I have to worry about installing my own drivers :-)

Apples, oranges.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#157

Post by oblio »

varispeed wrote: post #152
eyelidlessness wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I’m amazed Apple even cares enough one way or another that they mentioned Linux virtualization in the M1 announcement. But it’s not a middle finger, this was more or less exactly how they handled multiboot on Intel: let the community figure out a solution, see if it gets uptake, support it with a first party solution if it does. That’s how we got Boot Camp, as there was a lot of interest in booting Windo…

So essentially Apple is exploiting its consumers and get free research and development without having to pay salaries and tax? Probably that's why they are worth so much. I am only amazed that there is so many people willing to do this job for Apple for free - it would be a different ball game is macOS was open source, but sacrificing your own time and resources to enhance a commercial product... people are weird.

Well, that's why all the big companies open source stuff.

They're hoping to get increased for themselves, increased adoption of their internal tools outside of the company (easier recruiting plus purely internal tools are notorious for rotting quickly) and... free labor.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#158

Post by oblio »

iSnow wrote: post #60
acomjean wrote: post #38

I understand there is a thing with trying to run Linux everywhere, and it’s a fun exercise. Even if Apple does do some open source support, Even if that hardware isn’t quite as nice, I prefer to buy/support hardware and vendors that support Linux at this point.

Understandable and I was ready to buy a Dell XPS as I like the "small and light" form factor. I was just waiting for the COVID buy spike to subside and see how my financial situation would evolve. But I have pushed the decision back to see how Linux will be running on the M1. From first reports, it is simply tailor-made for a laptop computer that doesn't get burning hot or dog slow because of thermal throttling. I ho…

If you're planning that device to be your daily driver, I'd definitely get the XPS. A stable Linux distro running on M1 is probably 3-5 years away, at least.

Re: Linux Running on Apple M1

#159

Post by alexhutcheson »

glitchc wrote: post #145
alexhutcheson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What instructions from an extended ISA are you referring to? The only ones I've seen written up have been: 1. Instructions to change the memory ordering mode, which allows Rosetta2 to skip some expensive memory fences when translating x86 binaries to ARM. 2. Some instructions for matrix math. I wouldn't expect either of these to affect typical usage or battery life much, unless your workflow involves running things t…

Wow, I guess Torvalds himself must be wrong then: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/__trashed-6/

In that article, Torvalds specifically says:

"The main problem with the M1 for me is the GPU and other devices around it"

That's a separate issue than the ISA extensions, which apply to the ARM CPU.

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