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Have we already been visited by aliens?

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Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#91

Post by JackFr »

Xelbair wrote: post #50
wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

but were we, humanity, gods? There is always a chance that the Higher Civilization missed something - culturally, scientifically or artistically speaking. Letting such civilization emerge, and help them ascend when they reach certain level seems to be saner and safer approach. The Higher Civilization might've been stuck in local maxima, adding such random element might let the Higher Civilisation absorb the best part…

“Higher” indicates an ordering. How do you rank civilizations? If we replace “higher” with “more advanced“ it’s still not an obvious thing.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#92

Post by hchz »

excitom wrote: post #11

Such an object would function as a sail—one powered by light, rather than by wind. The natural world doesn’t produce sails; people do. What about jellyfish that move about the oceans pushed by wind?

I think finding space jellyfish would also be a monumental discovery.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#93

Post by mrec »

throwanem wrote: post #32
StavrosK wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try DS9 when you're done with TNG. It's very different, but still great. I think they're some of the best shows ever made, especially because they didn't tiptoe around ethical dilemmas, they made them a main part of each episode's plot.

After DS9 (or maybe before it), also take a look at Babylon 5, the show that arguably inspired DS9 and certainly did a lot of things that no Trek show to date has been bold enough to try. It's a bit camp by today's standards, and the first season struggles a bit in places - but the same can be fairly said of TNG, and the depth of B5's narrative and characterization remains in many ways unequaled since its original ru…

Agree 100%. What always struck me most about it was the sheer ambition of it - not just the raw scale of the drama, not just setting things up in Season 1 that wouldn't pay off until the very end of Season 5 (if Michael O'Hare hadn't needed to be written out), but getting compelling long-term character arcs (especially for Londo and G'Kar) into small-screen SF for the first time.

If I have one major gripe about the show, it's the way it was constantly padded out with filler eps at a time when JMS's ability to get the core storylines finished was still in doubt. The threat to S5 and resulting hasty rearrangement of S4 meant that the final season didn't hit with the weight it could have done; it felt like an afterthought rather than a climax.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#94

Post by mixmastamyk »

mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

Great shows though TNG doesn’t hit its stride until the third season. Don’t give up early. The main problem is too many episodes per season; several are “phoned in” per season.

I loved watching the remastered version on Netflix, it looked better than new.

Second on the Babylon 5 recommendations, it is one of the best sci fi shows ever. Was hooked

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#95

Post by JackFr »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39
mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

> as humanly possible

There’s some post-colonial baggage to unpack there.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#96

Post by xattt »

eloff wrote: post #86
bostonsre wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculing scientists for plausible hypothesis seems very unscientific.

This is very common in science. New theories are usually rejected and ridiculed until/if they develop enough evidence behind them to sway people. Some careers are destroyed. Some scientists are only vindicated posthumously. The process can take many decades. Scientists, like most humans, are not that open-minded and are subject to the same group-think blind spots. I think if we could get better at being open-minded a…

The most recent event that comes to my mind is the lead up to the discovery of H. pylori causing gastric ulcers.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#97

Post by trestenhortz »

It’s not aliens.

Nothing can convince me that there’s any practical way to travel the distances between the stars.

If you don’t agree then I think you fundamentally don’t grasp how incomprehensibly vast those distances are.

I absolutely believe in life in other worlds but there’s no way to travel from star to star.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#98

Post by cgriswald »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #63

I've long thought the starseeder hypothesis was a good bet from purely statistical grounds. What are the odds of intelligent life arising ex nihilo? We'd assume infinitesimal. Given that it happened once, what are the odds that life will successfully expand to other planets? I at least would assume better than it happening independently again, we've never seen autogenesis but we have sent tardigrades to the moon.

I'm imagining two paths for life to spread between star systems.

The first is via intelligent life actively exploring those systems—the purpose or mechanism of that exploration doesn't really matter; life could get there either way. So now you're comparing the statistical probability of abiogenesis against the product of the probabilities of a half dozen unlikely events (roughly, first abiogensis -> cells -> animals -> intelligence -> civilization -> technological civilization -> society stable enough to spread life amongst the stars). This isn't clear cut, but my best guess is that abiogenesis happening twice is rather more likely.

The second is via some form of microbial life leaving the star system and spreading to other stars by accident (whether evolutionary accident or 'act of God'). I think it's possible life could leave the star system by some mechanism and with a ridiculous number of individuals and time could hit other star systems rather than floating in between systems forever. Then it has to land on a planet that not only doesn't kill it, but allows it to thrive. (Tardigrades aren't going to populate the moon.) I'm not sure how possible or likely this would be, but I'm guessing it requires a ton of time (that the universe may not have experienced yet) and, if it were likely, we'd have already found evidence of life on Mars.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#99

Post by mrec »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #63

I've long thought the starseeder hypothesis was a good bet from purely statistical grounds. What are the odds of intelligent life arising ex nihilo? We'd assume infinitesimal. Given that it happened once, what are the odds that life will successfully expand to other planets? I at least would assume better than it happening independently again, we've never seen autogenesis but we have sent tardigrades to the moon.

> What are the odds of intelligent life arising ex nihilo? We'd assume infinitesimal.

Why would we assume that? We've been seeing biologically interesting chemicals appear from much simpler ones for well over a century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis#Chemical_synthesis...

Also, your "starseeder hypothesis" sounds a lot more deliberate than panspermia theories, but correct me if I'm misunderstanding you there.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#100

Post by mrbonner »

silicon2401 wrote: post #55
mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

by 1993 series do you mean the 1993 season? I was confused at first because I thought it was from the 80s and just confirmed that it came out in 87. Anyway, definitely an excellent show. I watched it a bit as a kid when it aired on G4 and I've been meaning to get back into it.

I watch it on Netflix and the title shows 1993. I am confused as well but I realized that 1993 is the last season. The show itself was in the 80s.
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