Have we already been visited by aliens? • Hacker News Board

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#71

Post by mcbits » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #34

flatiron wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can at least put something in its way and if it nopes around it to avoid a collision that’s pretty freaking interesting.

Again, if we had the technology to do that it would be amazing. We can't generate even within a couple orders of magnitude of the acceleration needed to do that.

We probably do have the technology (money is the hard part) to build a telescope array that spans the solar system, and to keep some rockets in standby orbits beyond Neptune. That would provide for earlier detection of an approaching object and a better chance of having a rocket close enough to intercept it.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#72

Post by jonathankoren » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #42

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #35

> Loeb, though, explicitly rejects the Sagan standard—“It is not obvious to me why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” he observes—and flips its logic on its head: “Extraordinary conservatism keeps us extraordinarily ignorant.” So long as there’s a chance that 1I/2017 U1 is an alien probe, we’d be fools not to pursue the idea. “If we acknowledge that ‘Oumuamua is plausibly of extraterrestrial-techno…

Yea, the actual fallacy is thinking you must identify what something is before you have enough information. 1I/2017 U1 is an unknown object and that’s perfectly ok. It didn’t display any radio signals, unusual thrust, or extreme velocity requiring it to be an alien probe. But, that doesn’t prevent it from being a probe either.

While it’s true that it didn’t produce any detectable radio signals, it have an unexplained force acting on it. It was this acceleration away from the sun that spawned the theories of undetected outgassing or light pressure. As for “extreme velocity”, that’s a bit a canard. It’s traveling at interstellar speeds, and humanity has already has five interstellar probes today. Now none of these indicate that it’s probe — working or otherwise — but these aren’t the reasons against it. (Well, no radio emissions is a reason against a working probe.)

The big unknown for me about the object is that we don’t actually have a good idea about its shape. Drawings show it has a cigar shaped rock, which is only one possible configuration compatible with the radio reflections. If only we could have actually seen the object, a lot of this uncertainty would have been eliminated.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#73

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#74

Post by BugWatch » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #62

throwanem wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, do! I also saw a few early episodes as a kid, but didn't really have a chance to get what they were trying to do; it wasn't until years later, when I had a chance to watch the full series straight through thanks to a friend's carefully made VHS tapes, that any of what I was seeing really made sense to me. Nothing since then has even come close to replacing B5 at the head of my SF TV affections. Reflecting on that…

I'll definitely watch then, thank you. As a sidenote, I think that the TNG I watched has remastered CGI. I remember remarking how good the CGI looked for the 90s, and realized/heard later than they redid all the CGI. The new CGI was definitely not out of place, if not fairly good, but I'm not entirely sure that what I'm saying is true. Just mentioning it in case you wanted to look into it.

TMK very little of its effects are strictly new: almost all are digitally re-composited, color-corrected and slightly enhanced high-resolution scans of the original film footage (which used physical models and optical effects), since they were still available. IIRC, planets - as seen from space - are a notable exception (and better for it). It was a major remastering process, with beautiful results. (Although major, remastering cost less (for the whole series) than a single episode of the (IMO) abomination called "Discovery".)

Sadly, such an approach is impossible for the majority parts of the latter series (DS9, VOY) since their effects were mostly CGI, and rendered directly to standard definition video. Further more, many of the 3D models and scenes have been lost, so it would probably require a total effects re-do from scratch (on top of film stock scans), which is "a very costly proposition with questionable (financial) returns".

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#75

Post by cronix » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

scythmic_waves wrote: post #70

cronix wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the speed of light is indeed the fundamental limit to classical information transfer as our current understanding of physics predicts I used to think that as well, but with all of the recent proof of quantum entanglement, I'm not so sure anymore. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/295013-scientists-captur...

My (relatively uninformed) understanding was that you couldn't transfer information via quantum entanglement. Is that not correct?

This is not my field, but it seem if you can spin 1 particle in a known direction and the entangled "partner" particle spins the exact opposite direction, then why not? Basically everything would just be reversed with a 1 being a 0 and a 0 being a 1 on the receiving end. I know both the Chinese and American governments are working on quantum entanglement as a communication mechanism and the Chinese have had some success between satellites. Basically a real time wireless internet.

Edit: better link for Chinese experiments from Science Mag.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/quantum-internet-clo...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-experiment-quantum-com...

https://newatlas.com/telecommunications/us-government-bluepr...

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#76

Post by IgorPartola » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

scythmic_waves wrote: post #70

cronix wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the speed of light is indeed the fundamental limit to classical information transfer as our current understanding of physics predicts I used to think that as well, but with all of the recent proof of quantum entanglement, I'm not so sure anymore. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/295013-scientists-captur...

My (relatively uninformed) understanding was that you couldn't transfer information via quantum entanglement. Is that not correct?

Moreover you can’t transfer information faster than the speed of light.

As for QE: I first I need to send you a particle at sunlight speeds. Then I measure my particle and get the value N, which means I immediately know that your particle must be -N. Great for key exchange: I can send you let’s say 2048 of these particles and then we instantly know each other’s keys/have a shared key, while also knowing if the transmission has been tempered with in transit. But I can’t send you a message I choose.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#77

Post by IgorPartola » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

cronix wrote: post #75

scythmic_waves wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My (relatively uninformed) understanding was that you couldn't transfer information via quantum entanglement. Is that not correct?

This is not my field, but it seem if you can spin 1 particle in a known direction and the entangled "partner" particle spins the exact opposite direction, then why not? Basically everything would just be reversed with a 1 being a 0 and a 0 being a 1 on the receiving end. I know both the Chinese and American governments are working on quantum entanglement as a communication mechanism and the Chinese have had some succ…

Because you don’t get to choose which way the particle spins when creating an entangled pair.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#78

Post by wait_a_minute » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #52

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

Imagine a race of ultra-advanced aliens were to give us technology that keeps us not only alive indefinitely, but robust and healthy, without disease. Just that one piece of technology. Not even weird weapons like antimatter bombs, etc. Do you think humanity would suddenly come together in understanding and peace to explore the stars and advance ourselves... or do you think people who already have enormous wealth and…

We've never experienced this or had the chance to do it, so all we have to go off of are parallels to how we interact with each other. If we did this for others, we'd need to mentor and guide them into the future. If others did this for us, they'd need to do the same rather than just boost our tech and then abandon us.

I'm optimistic that if it happened to us, even in the limited hypothetical you presented, we'd rapidly transform as a species for the better. Now, if that would've happened 50 years ago or longer...not so optimistic.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#79

Post by wait_a_minute » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #53

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

It’s reasonable to try it, but that could also fail quite spectacularly which was the actual justification. Further, their where many examples of such failures. Honestly, I found the idea quite refreshing as it suggests Star Fleet incompetence was the root issue rather than pure ethics. And really understanding the culture, biology, politics, etc of an alien species well enough to be a net positive across generations…

I do appreciate this nuance. If it was primarily because Star Fleet was afraid to mess up, that's understandable. But if I were to see a fledgling species being struck down by some disease or natural calamity, I think in reality it'd make more sense to at least try to save them and elevate them than to just life extinguish that way.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#80

Post by wait_a_minute » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #56

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

Humans can't manage that on earth.

Not yet, but we can and I believe we will. That's been the trend of history since we've existed.