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Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#381
post #55

I'm going to go around the interesting tech angle here and comment on how many people on this list have been pardoned for petty drug crimes. *Corvain Cooper – President Trump commuted the sentence of Mr. Corvain Cooper. Mr. Cooper is a 41 year-old father of two girls who has served more than 7 years of a life sentence for his non-violent participation in a conspiracy to distribute marijuana.* Life sentence for "consp…

If the goal was real justice, why is this left to the 11th hour storm of bullshit pardons? Isn't this being used as an obvious distraction when it could have happened much sooner?

You can't take the politics out of politics.

The President is the head of the executive branch. The Department of Justice, on top of which the President ultimately sits, was responsible for prosecuting ~each and ~every one of the people the President pardons, on their first or last day. Someone inside the DoJ thought each and every one of them was guilty of a crime and deserved to be prosecuted for it. Weeks and months -- years, the work of dozens -- went into each and every one of those prosecutions. The convictions, when obtained, were hung like trophies on the walls of the individual careers. Proof they had done their job, proof their work had meaning.

And then the President, with the stroke of a pen, throws it all away.

We all have projects get canceled. We all have invested time and effort and then, through no fault of our own, had our efforts come to naught.

It's bad for morale. Even when the reasons for the laws were outdated or absurd, even when the prosecutions unjust, even when perfidy played a role, even when the people who worked the case no longer fully believe in it ... it still hurts to have your work thrown away by your superior. It still damages the working relationship you have with your chain of command. Why should you work hard in the future, doing the tasks assigned to you, if your boss is just going to ignore it all?

The President pardoning dozens, hundreds, thousands of individuals permanently damages their working relationship with the career employees of the Department of Justice, even (especially?) if the pardons are moral, deserved, merciful, just without a hint of corruption. Maybe that shouldn't defer justice, but it's a reason.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#382
I have to say there is quite a lot to learn from Levandowski.[0] I am not a fan of corruption but it's undeniable that he played whatever cards he had in life and played them hard. He'll probably be a shadowy billionaire quite soon.

One quote stood out to me at the very end of the article:

“The only thing that matters is the future,” he told me after the civil trial was settled. “I don’t even know why we study history. It’s entertaining, I guess—the dinosaurs and the Neanderthals and the Industrial Revolution, and stuff like that. But what already happened doesn’t really matter. You don’t need to know that history to build on what they made. In technology, all that matters is tomorrow.”

I've always been obsessed by history but always struggled with this same sentiment: that I was escaping reality and my responsibility to try interesting things by plunging into the past.

[0]https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...

edit: to clarify my thoughts given the sudden replies: I don't mean to say I argue for a wholesale casting off of the past. Clearly, I understand the trivial observation that such a view of history has naive aspects, but that's not at all what I am interested in. For me and most other people here that enjoy history and such things, ignoring history would be impossible anyway because the draw is too great. I'm merely putting out a reminder that all our inner or outer debates about the finer points of politics or history or other such topics are often a way to escape seeing what we can do in the present.

Looking at people like Levandowski, you might see yet another arrogant techie that has a blinkered view of the world, (and that is more or less true) but at the same time they are out there doing bold things and living life on the edge for better or for worse. They essentially act like the historical figures we read about, although I am not implying that he is some important figure as of yet (though who knows in the future) just that he shows the same zest for life.

I'm essentially speaking for those whose main problem is the opposite of Levandowski: too much intellectual masturbation, too much thought as entertainment, and too little meaningful application of whatever lessons you may or may not have learned. You may harp on about how history matters, but how many of you have actually been presented with choices that mattered beyond the parameters of your own life?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#383
post #340

It's important to note the reason the President has the power to pardon anyone for any reason is it's one of the checks and balances, the Constitution is full of them. It's meant as a check to blunt overzealous prosecutions. Note that the President does not have the corresponding power to convict anyone. An interesting set of pardons was when Andrew Johnson pardoned all the rebels in the Confederacy, including Jeffer…

As a foreigner Presidential pardons + the appointment (and life terms) of Supreme Court judges baffle me. How can a country that claims to be a leader in democracy have these two wildly abused bugs? Edit: fixed use of election instead of appointment

If I understand correctly, the lifetime appointment is meant to avoid political pressure. Don't you think the judges might be swayed to vote one way or another if they knew there was a vote coming up in a couple years and they'd be on the chopping block?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that game seems to be surprisingly common! It was played on my school in Munich, Germany. The rules were: if you look through the loop, you are punched in the upper arm. The puncher has to draw a bull's eye first, then punch, then the recipient must say "thank you" and the puncher must reply "you're welcome" (of course in German, i.e. bitte, danke). Any deviation from the rules is punished by a punch, to be admi…

I grew up in South Carolina and we definitely did this (without the "please" and "thank you" part). If I recall, there was an additional requirement where the ok hand had to be held below your waist, though.

UK here, the sign also had to be below the waist.

I have relatives my age in new zealand, and it was also common there.

Memes have an amazing power to spread, huh?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#385

It's important to note the reason the President has the power to pardon anyone for any reason is it's one of the checks and balances, the Constitution is full of them. It's meant as a check to blunt overzealous prosecutions. Note that the President does not have the corresponding power to convict anyone. An interesting set of pardons was when Andrew Johnson pardoned all the rebels in the Confederacy, including Jeffer…

Constitution has some excellent checks and balances but the blanket pardon isn't one of them. The pardon doesn't do anything to address systemic problems in the justice system and has become a channel for doling out political favors.

Technically, a president could pardon all federal marijuana convictions, and announce that they will continue to do so for the remainder of their term. Basically, it could be used to address systemic problems in the federal court system. A large portion of Biden's term will probably be spent trying to return to norms, so I doubt anything like this would happen.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#386
post #340

It's important to note the reason the President has the power to pardon anyone for any reason is it's one of the checks and balances, the Constitution is full of them. It's meant as a check to blunt overzealous prosecutions. Note that the President does not have the corresponding power to convict anyone. An interesting set of pardons was when Andrew Johnson pardoned all the rebels in the Confederacy, including Jeffer…

As a foreigner Presidential pardons + the appointment (and life terms) of Supreme Court judges baffle me. How can a country that claims to be a leader in democracy have these two wildly abused bugs? Edit: fixed use of election instead of appointment

Regarding judges: How would you appoint them? Basically there are three options:

- Have a public vote, direct legitimation (or via some extra electoral college or something) this means that judges have to be "popular" and run campaigns and question is, if that's really smart ...

- Have the "juristical class" elect within, so judges from lower courts would lick somebody, or current judges elect additional ones. That would put judges into their own "class" and remove all democratic legitimation

- or do what is done and have a democratically elected body do it. In the case of the U.S. it's done by a combination of president (nominating) and Senate (confirming) where the Senate represents the different states.

It is one of the tough problems.

For the pardon the idea comes from absolutist times where a King would pardon as he likes. The modern interpretation comes from correcting "blind" justice. Justice has to rule according to law. But sometimes one either might decide that a law was bad and than a pardon might be a way to correct that (ideally if law is rewritten as well) and sometimes there are hard cases, like the 90 year old who should get a chance to die outside of prison, for sake of family etc.

Generally the system assumes the actors act mostly in good faith and were removed (impeachment etc.) otherwise.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#387

No Assange, no Snowden. What a fool I am, I seriously envisaged that could happen... Instead it’s just more and more corruption.

The fact that all a POTUS does after presidency is enrich oneself, it's quite clear where the motives are. The moment when POTUS is unable to profit off of his presidency is the moment where these things wouldn't happen. POTUS becoming a multimillionaire after presidency is just a sad display of moral corruption. Edit: Not talking about Trump, just in general about POTUS. It's my impression that in the last 50 years…

Have you heard of Jimmy Carter?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#388

This is all so hilariously corrupt. I'm not sure I can even muster anger for this, just laughter. (I'll reserve the anger for the pandemic and this administration's callous, frankly criminal handling of it). (So Levandowski and Jared are going to launch a venture fund soon, right?)

Not to "both sides" this too much, because I do feel like there's a new, special level of corruption and self-dealing on display with this administration, but it's not uncommon for these guys to use pardons for personal gain or the benefits of their friends. For a little context and flavor, remember that Clinton pardoned some real winners on his last day too, including some guy who paid $200k to Hillary Clinton's bro…

Not to agree too much with a both-sidsing of Trump corruption, but in fact I agree here.

This pardon was... really pretty conventional. It's of a non-violent crime and a comparatively compartmentalized one that doesn't impact the nation as a whole. Incentivising industrial espionage isn't "not bad", but it's not that bad.

This is routine Washington stuff, really. The genuinely corrupt pardons, of his family and associates (and potentially himself) for crimes committed during the administration don't seem to have materialized[1]. The list from yesterday is very long, but really pretty unsurprising.

[1] But there is still an hour and a half left. A pardon can be scrawled on a napkin in 30 seconds and then shown to the media to deliver it. There's no formality requirement in the constitution. If he does it before noon then it counts.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#389
post #340

It's important to note the reason the President has the power to pardon anyone for any reason is it's one of the checks and balances, the Constitution is full of them. It's meant as a check to blunt overzealous prosecutions. Note that the President does not have the corresponding power to convict anyone. An interesting set of pardons was when Andrew Johnson pardoned all the rebels in the Confederacy, including Jeffer…

As a foreigner Presidential pardons + the appointment (and life terms) of Supreme Court judges baffle me. How can a country that claims to be a leader in democracy have these two wildly abused bugs? Edit: fixed use of election instead of appointment

You might want to look at the electoral vote and how 1 vote in Wyoming accounts as much as roughly 4 votes in Texas and California. Pretty serious bug that is enabling the far right to be over represented imo.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#390

This is all so hilariously corrupt. I'm not sure I can even muster anger for this, just laughter. (I'll reserve the anger for the pandemic and this administration's callous, frankly criminal handling of it). (So Levandowski and Jared are going to launch a venture fund soon, right?)

Not to "both sides" this too much, because I do feel like there's a new, special level of corruption and self-dealing on display with this administration, but it's not uncommon for these guys to use pardons for personal gain or the benefits of their friends. For a little context and flavor, remember that Clinton pardoned some real winners on his last day too, including some guy who paid $200k to Hillary Clinton's bro…

If you're going to both sides this you should at least mention Clinton's most corrupt pardon (Marc Rich).

I would say that it is uncommon for presidents to abuse the pardon power like this, it's just not completely unheard of. It's also worth noting that Trump multiplied the total number of corrupt presidential pardons in US history by something like 10 in his time in office. The scale is hard to fully grasp.

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