Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#811

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:36 AM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #553

sojournerc wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread started with you saddened at folks downplaying the events at the Capitol. I'm much more concerned with the media being complicit in downplaying what we both agree is domestic terrorism elsewhere. I suppose that's a "what about", but I fear the current structures of power colluding to form narratives more than angry trumpers.

93% of the BLM protests were peaceful [1] despite protestors numbering in the millions, if not tens of millions - compared to the tens of thousands at the capitol. The most notable violence during the BLM protests was an incident where far right extremists, members of Bugaloo boys group involved in the capitol attack, used the protests as cover to murder cops [2]. To compare the two is disingenuous. [1] https://acled…

Within a few blocks of where I used to live, armed “protesters” physically seized control of a police station and city park and committed four shootings—ironically, the last of these entailed the armed “security” forces misidentifying and opening fire on two black teenagers, killing one of them.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#812

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:37 AM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #597

selectodude wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are slow burns. The attack on the capital was a severe jolt to our national psyche. You may not want them to be different, but they are.

I disagree. The things that happened at the Capitol stick out in your mind because they are the most recent thing that happened. Every moment I posted was hailed as "the most important thing to happen in our lifetime" when it occurred. This is one of the big problems with our society now: sensationalism rules and our collective memories are short. It's just hard for me to believe that in fifty years I'll be saying "o…

> It's just hard for me to believe that in fifty years I'll be saying "oh boy you remember those dudes that broke into the Capitol?" as I stand in line for my bi-monthly mRNA booster shot that the newly appointed 99th Supreme Court Justice (after the Court has been packed, of course) has ruled is mandatory for all citizens.

Well, yeah, all the stuff added to describe the context in which you would be remembering the events sounds pretty implausible.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#813

Post by notahacker » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #597

selectodude wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are slow burns. The attack on the capital was a severe jolt to our national psyche. You may not want them to be different, but they are.

I disagree. The things that happened at the Capitol stick out in your mind because they are the most recent thing that happened. Every moment I posted was hailed as "the most important thing to happen in our lifetime" when it occurred. This is one of the big problems with our society now: sensationalism rules and our collective memories are short. It's just hard for me to believe that in fifty years I'll be saying "o…

We remember Nixon for Watergate rather than how he normalised the relationship with China, ended the Vietnam War, floated USD and handled the Civil Rights movement despite all of that stuff having more long term consequences

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#814

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

three_seagrass wrote: post #747

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

93% of meteors hitting earth are harmless. This is not about the probability but the outcome at the tail 7% or 3% or 1% is still huge. The right number to use is 0%. Not 1% or 7% Zero. Those protests literally shut down critical stores for people in dire straits. For ex. The only pharmacy near low income seniors with limited motor ability, with the double whammy that public transport also shut down. Cities on fire ev…

95% of meteors don't even hit the ground, and most of those that do are just pebble sized. Are you really trying to compare Black Lives Matter to a mass extinction event? Edit: Okay, you've massively edited your comment. A single gender reveal party caused more property damage than all the BLM protests combined. I do not get this continued obsession with BLM protests, especially in conversations regarding the insurre…

> A single gender reveal party caused more property damage than all the BLM protests combined

Source? I’m seeing multiple news reports of about $1-2 billion in damages due to the riots.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#815

Post by curlypaul924 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

throw-239582woh wrote: post #292

alwaysdoit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

A few possibilities: - Overcorrection: law enforcement had come under fire for using excessive force against protests and they erred on the other side. - Conspiracy: the security state is firmly under the control of the pro-Trump faction, who (incorrectly) thought they could make Trump president for life once the Q Shaman took the Senate. - Conspiracy: the security state is firmly under the control of the anti-Trump…

This is similar to the conclusion I came to. Because there are so many logical possibilities, without a reputable source definitively stating that one of these is right, the door is open for anyone to pick a narrative and run with it.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#816

Post by kypro » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #337

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s reasoning was their incapacity to moderate violent messages, not their ratio of violent messages.

And Facebook removes such posts when they are made aware of them, while Parler expressly does not , so what is your point?

This isn't true... Parler does remove calls for violence when they are reported.

I used to use Parler before the ban and I don't remembering seeing any calls for violence. I'm not saying it doesn't exist because to be fair I wouldn't of been in those circles anyway, but it seemed quite tame in contrast to what I see from the average person I follow on Twitter where I regularly see people posting violent Tweets about Trump, his supporters, and even tweets supportive of the violent protests we saw earlier in the year. It's only been in recent weeks that those calling for violence throughout 2020 are finally denouncing violence.

Everyone who is acting like Parler was this really radical place just didn't use it IMO. I think people are clearly right when they say this about platforms Bitchute and some of the Reddit alternatives, but as far as I could tell the content on Parler was just like every other social network, just a little more conservative leaning.

If Apple is that concerned they should ban the Saidit app where there is Jewish conspiracies and far-right content everywhere. I strongly suspect they're lying to you when they say it was because of a lack of moderation. Just like how Twitter allows Richard Spencer to remain on their platform while claiming Trump has gone too far. Evidence would suggest they don't target extremism, they target popular conservative commenters and platforms.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#817

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:48 AM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #355

whoknew1122 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far-right terrorism in the US has never really been taken seriously. No one took them seriously. Until the Capitol was attacked. The Feds are starting to roll up high ranking militia members, so hopefully they learned their lesson this time.

Rolled, and let go on bail? [1] Or just released with a stay-away-from-DC order? [2] The discrepancy between how BLM and white nationalists are treated is staggering. [1] https://apnews.com/article/arrests-florida-nancy-pelosi-capi... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/01/14/judg...

Is it?

> According to an accounting by the American Bail Coalition, verified by The Fact Checker with a review of Hennepin County jail records, all but three of the 170 people arrested during the protests between May 26 and June 2 were released from jail within a week. Of the 167 released, only 10 had to put up a monetary bond to be released; in most cases, the amounts were nominal, such as $78 or $100. In fact, 92 percent of those arrested had to pay no bail — and 29 percent of those arrested did not face charges. (The American Bail Coalition is a trade group of insurance companies who profit from underwriting bail bonds.)

[1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#818

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

pydry wrote: post #485

manfredo wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a varied response to BLM riots. In my city, BLM demonstrators - or at least people purporting to be part of BLM - declared several city blocks an autonomous zone. The zone's security forces subsequent killed several people (among them, ironically, an unarmed black 16 year old). It took the city 3 weeks to clear out this zone, and it was done without lethal force. By comparison, the people occupying the Capi…

>The zone's security forces subsequent killed several people (among them, ironically, an unarmed black 16 year old). There seem to be a lot of people who are absolutely certain that the security forces were responsible for this. The police aren't among their number, however, since they haven't detained, arrested or charged anyone. There was also another killing in the zone that was, iirc, erroneously blamed on the se…

The police stated that the crime scene had been cleaned of evidence by the time they arrived to investigate it.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#819

Post by curlypaul924 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #334

alwaysdoit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

When the commander in chief is the orchestrator, blaming law enforcement is not clear cut either.

It's not clear whether the President was the orchestrator, or whether he was the conductor for music written by someone else.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#820

Post by Nextgrid » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 10:56 AM UTC

efwfwef wrote: post #322

Nextgrid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook does act like an editor by way of their algorithms. Facebook's (and other social media's) timelines are no longer limited to the people you explicitly follow. Whether they have the ability to moderate or not is irrelevant. If you can't afford the obligations of a publisher, don't be a publisher.

You're looking at it wrong. This is free expression, they are providing a platform as free as you going in the street and expressing yourself. If the government wants to censor this type of expression, it must pass laws, and it must dictates what you can say or can't say. With such a move, social medias would become forbidden, or inefficient (as every post would need to be approved before being released). If this is…

> This is free expression, they are providing a platform as free as you going in the street and expressing yourself.

The street does not automatically reshape itself to promote the most offensive graffiti to as many people as possible.

I wouldn't have a problem with Facebook being hands-off if it was limited to content you explicitly followed in reverse-chronological order (like it used to be), as all you'd need to filter out the bullshit is to not follow bullshit sources. Of course, Facebook's revenue would drop off a cliff if they made this change because bullshit is what drives Facebook's revenue and not the friends/family pictures users originally came there for.