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Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

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Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#251

Post by kelnos »

Lammy wrote: post #222
dane-pgp wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right to remind us about the cognitive biases relating to in-groups and out-groups[1], but let's remember that in the context of this thread, the original comment about "idiots" was: "These people are idiots. Bringing their cellphones, recording video of themselves committing felonies and then posting them online." It doesn't seem that the commenter was branding every voter for the opposing candidate an idiot,…

It's a pretty common sentiment I've seen lately even here on HN, for example all of the threads about how amateurish Parler is/was (LOL did you know they're so stupid they didn't know to strip image metadata?), like we told them to go make their own website but then mock them while they learn how to do it. I'm just sick of being mean!

I think there's a bit of a chasm between:

"I'm a newbie web developer and I've never heard of EXIF", and

"It didn't occur to me that I shouldn't have recorded video of myself committing crimes and then posted it on the internet."

> I'm just sick of being mean!

Fair point. And regardless, "these people are idiots" doesn't really help us make sense of what happened, or figure out how to stop people from even wanting to do things like this in the future.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#252

Post by kelnos »

treeman79 wrote: post #146
mhh__ wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice strawman... I don't think either of those things were acceptable either. Quite frankly lumping in all of the protests over the summer, for example the one The Donald had tear gassed, with the looting that largely took place after dark is really saying the quiet part out loud. If they'd protested outside the Capitol not in it, I'd be more sympathetic, even if they were campaigning for the end of American Democrac…

No straw man. A double standard.

How's this for a double standard: a group of mostly-white "protestors" can storm the US federal government with minimal opposition from law enforcement, resulting in essentially one death. Meanwhile, black men and women live with an entirely reasonable fear that any interaction with law enforcement, no matter how benign the circumstances might be, could easily end in their death.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#253

Post by generalizations »

mjevans wrote: post #230
generalizations wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. I would only bother to take the exam if I could use my radio for encrypted packet radio. I'd love to set up a long range meshnet, but it's only useful if it's encrypted. There's a lot of fundamental infrastructure decentralization that can happen once some of the HAM frequencies allow encrypted use.

They're only useful precisely because they aren't being used for that. What you really want instead is something like the HAM license allowing the use of point to point equipment at higher power and on frequencies reserved for operators that respect the communications medium.

I was referring to the exam for the HAM license, which I don't want or find interesting because it doesn't allow encryption. Encryption is pretty basic at this point. I want to set up long-range, encrypted, decentralized, p2p mesh networks with my friends. Because I'm accustomed to private conversations, and HAM radio represents a huge step backwards in that regard.

I find it more believable that the government is scared of such technology than that encryption would be such a detriment to the HAM radio community.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#254

Post by anothernewdude »

chrisseaton wrote: post #193
UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #35

Baofeng's, Baofengs everywhere. Of all the images I have seen of the attempted coup, I have only seen baofeng radios. These are very cheap ($20'ish) radios that work very poorly (they splatter all over the bands) even when equipped with decent antennas. They barely work when equipped with the stock rubber-duck antennas. It's easy to be a snob about the type of radios that they are using, but that's not even the point…

> These people are idiots. I think 'these people are idiots' is an easy thing to think but almost always the wrong thing. Few people are idiots. Most people are just as smart as you are. More likely, these people fundamentally aren't looking at the situation like you are. Probably, they don't care what you, or the police, or the FBI, or anyone else, think about what they're doing and don't care how they're being trac…

> Few people are idiots.

> Most people are just as smart as you are.

Well which is it?

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#255

Post by ALittleLight »

kelnos wrote: post #248
krastanov wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude really saddens me. We should be advocating for all protestors to be treated with such gentle touch, not for all protestors to be brutalized the way BLM protestors were. Thankfully, this is the attitude I have heard from most BLM leaders.

I agree with you on how protestors should be treated, but take issue calling the people at the Capitol "protestors". Some certainly were simply protestors, but quite a few -- those we are talking about now -- crossed the line from protesting into breaking and entering, vandalism, and in some cases violent behavior.

I think "protester" is appropriate for people who are protesting a political process in a political building - even if some of them exceeded acceptable behavior, committed crimes, were violent etc.

Using BLM as an example, is it still fair to call them protesters though they sometimes fight with police (violent behavior), graffiti or break windows (vandalism), loot (breaking and entering)?

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#256

Post by WalterBright »

technick wrote: post #236
WalterBright wrote: post #137

The local public library has a sign posted saying that unlawful activity is not allowed on the premises.

Same in Denver, doesn't seem to stop the homeless from overdosing in the bathroom.

Makes you wonder who the sign is for. I doubt that anyone considering committing crimes is going to read the sign and think "oh, I guess I better not."

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#257

Post by MrMorden »

ALittleLight wrote: post #228
krastanov wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude really saddens me. We should be advocating for all protestors to be treated with such gentle touch, not for all protestors to be brutalized the way BLM protestors were. Thankfully, this is the attitude I have heard from most BLM leaders.

I agree that the comment you are responding to is saddening, but I disagree with the characterization of the Capitol protesters as being treated with a "gentle touch". One unarmed woman was shot and killed, others were maced, beaten etc. Three other protesters died from causes that I've just seen described as "medical". This hardly seems like evidence of a light touch to me. In my estimation the Capitol Police were s…

If the BLM protestors attempted to storm buildings defended by the federal police that were deployed to those protests, they'd have been mowed down with light machine guns. Had the police not rioted themselves, nothing would have happened even if BLM had come to fight because it would have been abundantly clear that escalation would not lead to rising property values in Tokyo.

The Capitol should have been much better fortified by a much larger force given that the FBI, MPD, and Capitol Police knew or should have known about this plan for months. Had the presence of several hundred officers with multiple layers of fencing and visibly-manned M249 positions not been sufficient to convince their vanguard to run away, they would have been able to escalate to spotlights, LRAD, and less-lethal projectiles before needing to go with the real deal. A suitable amount of publicity for these preparations could very well have resulted in the Q Cucks Klan deciding to find an excuse to either make it a legitimate protest or call the whole thing off.

The deaths would have been at most two or three rioters, and possibly a few who get trampled in the panicked retreat. That would have been a light touch; it accomplishes the objective using a minimum of force, and if they saw reason nobody would even have been scratched. A medium touch would just be shooting anyone who tries to breach the perimeter until they stop trying (which would have been totally legal); a heavy touch would have happened to the BLM protestors if they had escalated to violence.

Kneeling in solidarity with protesters is fine because neither the protestors or the officer are breaking the law or indeed doing anything wrong. Letting an enemy force (and that's absolutely what a crowd of people with unlawfully-possessed guns and Army of Northern Virginia battle flags is) past your position is at a minimum conspiracy to enter and remain in a federal building without authorization.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#258

Post by MrMorden »

generalizations wrote: post #208
nikitaga wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone. Your cell service provider holds the license. Ham radio exam is not hard, and does not require special training, just some basic knowledge of how radios work and what the regulations are. I don't see what the issue is.

You're missing the point. I would only bother to take the exam if I could use my radio for encrypted packet radio. I'd love to set up a long range meshnet, but it's only useful if it's encrypted. There's a lot of fundamental infrastructure decentralization that can happen once some of the HAM frequencies allow encrypted use.

You can absolutely do that, and there are several potential license and license-free options. None of them are amateur radio, however.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#259

Post by blabitty »

MrMorden wrote: post #257
ALittleLight wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the comment you are responding to is saddening, but I disagree with the characterization of the Capitol protesters as being treated with a "gentle touch". One unarmed woman was shot and killed, others were maced, beaten etc. Three other protesters died from causes that I've just seen described as "medical". This hardly seems like evidence of a light touch to me. In my estimation the Capitol Police were s…

If the BLM protestors attempted to storm buildings defended by the federal police that were deployed to those protests, they'd have been mowed down with light machine guns. Had the police not rioted themselves, nothing would have happened even if BLM had come to fight because it would have been abundantly clear that escalation would not lead to rising property values in Tokyo. The Capitol should have been much better…

They attemtpted to storm a federal building in Portland every night for weeks without being "gunned down".

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#260

Post by bryanrasmussen »

generalizations wrote: post #154
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

very well, who gets to determine that hierarchy and how will they enforce their determinations?

Not the government. And why should anyone inflict their view of morality on anyone else? I really don't want anyone - liberal, conservative, Christian or radical Islam - enforcing their determiniation of moral hierarchy on me. Do you?

ok well when you say X does not get to determine Y it implies that there is someone who gets to determine Y. I had difficulty imagining anyone who should be allowed to determine Y in this case, unless it was some theological concept, so I wanted some clarification of your position.
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