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China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

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Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#171
post #79

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

No, I don't think it's about blocking Github. Many of their tech companies are using open source. For China it's safer to have a Chinese Github ecosystem. Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users. It's also strategic for their government and some critical private sector to not put their source code on an American platform. So there are enough incentives especially…

China already DDoSed GitHub for political reasons in 2015. It doesn't take much imagination to see the aim here. E.g.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/04/ddos-...

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#172
post #79

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

No, I don't think it's about blocking Github. Many of their tech companies are using open source. For China it's safer to have a Chinese Github ecosystem. Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users. It's also strategic for their government and some critical private sector to not put their source code on an American platform. So there are enough incentives especially…

Sure. And they also don't let Google (since 2010) to operate in China for the exact same reason.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#173
post #171
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think it's about blocking Github. Many of their tech companies are using open source. For China it's safer to have a Chinese Github ecosystem. Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users. It's also strategic for their government and some critical private sector to not put their source code on an American platform. So there are enough incentives especially…

China already DDoSed GitHub for political reasons in 2015. It doesn't take much imagination to see the aim here. E.g. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/04/ddos-...

They've also blocked github in the past

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#174
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is an unreasonable request for rigor for a casual internet forum comment. That amount of rigor you have to pay for, and at this point I think it's reasonable for you to do your own research and present such normalized numbers.

It really isn't much to ask for. If you're making arguments based on really really shaky data you should not be making them at all. Comparing OECD regions to Chinese administrative metro areas is really quite absurd. The variance in Montréal for example depending on what you call a city can be almost 2x. For example, if you take the Tokyo Metro Area, you find a GDP per capita of 48k, with a PPP ratio of 0.98 we get 4…

> It really isn't much to ask for. If you're making arguments based on really really shaky data you should not be making them at all.

Can you demonstrate your principles with your other comment [0], by using “a single source that contains the numbers” of many of the countries and claims you mentioned in that comment?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25840962

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#176
post #79

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

No, I don't think it's about blocking Github. Many of their tech companies are using open source. For China it's safer to have a Chinese Github ecosystem. Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users. It's also strategic for their government and some critical private sector to not put their source code on an American platform. So there are enough incentives especially…

> Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users

Wait I thought India blocked github, not that github blocked India. Or has there been a whole thing I've missed?

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#177

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

How long before this strategy backfires? When does the CCP hurt itself because it stifled innovation? When does it have political problems because it suppressed the wrong thing? I can't tell if this style of governing is super robust or a house of cards.

Possibly never. The reason China's isolationist policies work is their massive population is big enough to form a mini world without a ton of knowledge gaps.

The US and maybe western Europe could be in a similar position, if they wanted to.

IMO the reason you don't want to be isolationist(as a big country) is more about political clout than tech. China has no "soft power" because their firewall works both ways.

The US and western Europe have military prescence and political allies worldwide because the free flow of information and technology fosters all sorts of political, corporate, and cultural mixing.

What influence China has on its neighbors (and worldwide to an extent) is maintained through pressure and threats, because frankly, their ultra nationalist policies just don't make many friends. I personally don't think this is sustainable long term but it is yet to be seen. Instead of allies wanting you to succeed, other nations are encouraged to obstruct as much as possible to weaken you and your unwelcome influence. You can see this unfolding in the last few years with increasing tariff and trade restrictions on China. And I don't see it letting up until Xi is out

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#178

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

> China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. All of our jobs and companies are at risk. China has far more software engineers than we do, all willing to work 996. They'll steal our tech and our data until they're ahead, then shut us off. We already lost our manufacturing industry. Our tech, entertainment, knowledge, and capital are next. China has bought our biggest gaming and media compan…

This is completely ridiculous drivel.

America is manufacturing more than it ever has. It’s producing more cars, trucks, airplanes, semiconductors, software, and military weapons than ever. It’s at historical highs. Oh and, it’s also highly mechanized and done by machines now.

When did America lose entertainment to China? Back in the 90s and 00s, western people thought that China was going to steal all of Hollywood’s movies. But what happened instead? It turns out Hollywood movies are shit. The same boring stories, played by the same white actors. In a multicultural world, all the Hollywood actors are white. Why? Someone here is clueless, and it’s not the Chinese.

It turns out, that the Chinese don’t care to watch western movies. Star Wars was a flop. All the major Hollywood blockbusters flopped in China. What happened instead? The Chinese people wanted to watch movies filled with people that looked like themselves. Movies that actually had multicultural people. Movies that had Chinese people in it. And it turns out, their movies are getting pretty good. You, as a westerner might not like their movies, but your opinion doesn’t matter here, since you’re not the target market for this money.

And ironically, for a guy that professes the virtues of democracy, you’re talking about suppressing the Trump supporters, all 75 million of them that voted for him.

Did it occur to you that the Chinese don’t care about your democracy? You can vote for whoever you want. You can have all the gay rights you want. You can have all the abortion or pro-life you want. You can protest your leaders, or mock them all you want. All irrelevant to the Chinese and to the CCP.

What does the Chinese want? They just want to trade with you. And they’re willing to send their children to your schools and universities to learn English and your culture. At least before Trump threw this all away, and poisoned the well.

Did it occur to you, that the Russians are playing you instead? They’re sitting back and laughing now from the comedy of the past 4 years.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem to be doing pretty well, economically-speaking. This is all relative. In an absolute sense, China's level of economic development on Bulgaria, Mexico or Kazakstan. They've had a long period of high growth, but that's only because of the abject poverty the Maoists left the country in. Before Deng's reforms, the country was essentially North Korea. China's prosperity is much more of a "most-improved award"…

Visiting China (Shanghai, Beijing, Nanking, Hangzhou) they all seemed like modern cities. Shops, restaurants, enormous shopping centers, coffeeshops, co-working spaces, theaters, bars, dance clubs, etc... Other than knowing I happened to be in China it certainly appear that in day to day life things are pretty good and the experience of living is similar to living in any modern western city.

China's newfound prosperity is HEAVILY concentrated in ~100 huge cities. Smaller cities are poorer but livable like eastern europe. The countryside is basically a third world country.

Traveling through US or Europe you won't find people living in cinderblock shacks with a dirt floor and no plumbing. In China it's still the norm outside of cities.

There's not anybody starving to death, but I wouldn't consider China a wealthy country, not even close. There's very wealthy areas but a large fraction of the population still survives on a few thousand dollars a year.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#180
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think it's about blocking Github. Many of their tech companies are using open source. For China it's safer to have a Chinese Github ecosystem. Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users. It's also strategic for their government and some critical private sector to not put their source code on an American platform. So there are enough incentives especially…

> Just imagine if Github suddenly decide to block Chinese users like they did for Iranian users Wait I thought India blocked github, not that github blocked India. Or has there been a whole thing I've missed?

Guessing you misread that? It was "Iran", not "India". ;)
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