Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes • Hacker News Board

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#221

Post by still_grokking » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:49 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #202

minikites wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people are just as smart as you are. These people don't believe in objective reality (Biden won the election and there was no meaningful voter or election fraud) and I'm having trouble thinking of a definition of "idiot" where something like that doesn't qualify.

> These people don't believe in objective reality Again... maybe they don't care instead of they don't believe? They may tell you they don't believe but what's not necessarily what they really think. 'They're just an idiot' is lazy analysis and dangerous. Very few people are idiots. Most people are lucid. It's dangerous because you're giving yourself a reason to be less cautious (how dangerous can they be - they're i…

Being dangerous and being an idiot are completely orthogonal.

> Very few people are idiots. Most people are lucid.

I would question this. The average IQ is by definition 100. But that's not much at all! And there are 50% even below this line.

If one has a look at for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States it get's even more worrisome. A large part of the US population is actually illiterate. In other parts of the world it looks even worse!

We as a species would have solved most of our issues thousands of years ago if the average dude out there wouldn't be so incredibly dumb. And if you think about it a little bit, and judge form "normal" behavior around you, it's frightening how stupid people are actually. (Just put on the TV for a quick recap).

If you're here on this site chances are high that you're smarter than the average. Looking form this position it may be hard to acknowledge all that stupidity around you because "No, they can't be such dumb, nobody can be such dumb". But in fact they are even dumber than you could imagine...

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#222

Post by Lammy » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:09 AM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #220

BurningFrog wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how we humans think of our outgroup. While your ingroup is unique individuals with good and bad traits, your outgroup is an undifferentiated "them" that is selfish, untrustworthy, stupid, the reason for all these problems we're having, and we really may have to do something about them one of these days!

You're right to remind us about the cognitive biases relating to in-groups and out-groups[1], but let's remember that in the context of this thread, the original comment about "idiots" was: "These people are idiots. Bringing their cellphones, recording video of themselves committing felonies and then posting them online." It doesn't seem that the commenter was branding every voter for the opposing candidate an idiot,…

It's a pretty common sentiment I've seen lately even here on HN, for example all of the threads about how amateurish Parler is/was (LOL did you know they're so stupid they didn't know to strip image metadata?), like we told them to go make their own website but then mock them while they learn how to do it. I'm just sick of being mean!

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#223

Post by Scaevolus » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:12 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #193

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #35

Baofeng's, Baofengs everywhere. Of all the images I have seen of the attempted coup, I have only seen baofeng radios. These are very cheap ($20'ish) radios that work very poorly (they splatter all over the bands) even when equipped with decent antennas. They barely work when equipped with the stock rubber-duck antennas. It's easy to be a snob about the type of radios that they are using, but that's not even the point…

> These people are idiots. I think 'these people are idiots' is an easy thing to think but almost always the wrong thing. Few people are idiots. Most people are just as smart as you are. More likely, these people fundamentally aren't looking at the situation like you are. Probably, they don't care what you, or the police, or the FBI, or anyone else, think about what they're doing and don't care how they're being trac…

> Most people are just as smart as you are.

That's a pretty bold assertion on a site filled with engineers.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#224

Post by Neeek » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

Scaevolus wrote: post #223

chrisseaton wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people are idiots. I think 'these people are idiots' is an easy thing to think but almost always the wrong thing. Few people are idiots. Most people are just as smart as you are. More likely, these people fundamentally aren't looking at the situation like you are. Probably, they don't care what you, or the police, or the FBI, or anyone else, think about what they're doing and don't care how they're being trac…

> Most people are just as smart as you are. That's a pretty bold assertion on a site filled with engineers.

What, you've never met a stupid engineer?

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#225

Post by vorpalhex » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

minikites wrote: post #201

japhyr wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people are idiots. Bringing their cellphones, recording video of themselves committing felonies and then posting them online. I don't think it's as simple as "these people were idiots because they recorded themselves committing a crime", to paraphrase this line of thinking. I'm pretty sure these people convinced themselves, and each other, that they were breaking the law to save the country. They thought they…

I think it does have a simple explanation, just different from yours. I think that they assumed they wouldn't be punished, because they never have been. Cops don't shoot white protestors.

There's a corpse in a morgue that'd like to disagree with you.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#226

Post by vorpalhex » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:14 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #166

treeman79 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But burning cities all summer is acceptable? Or taking over downtown city blocks for months...

Those things happened happened for a reason - specifically yet another public murder by the police which was posted online as a video for the delight of racists everywhere. There is no justification for the fact that imprisonment and murder of black people by the police happens, and is encouraged, to a completely disproportionate extent in the US. It's also well understood that imprisonment in the US is run on a for-…

> These police actions are immoral, unjust, and just plain nasty, and the best way to stop having your cities set on fire is to stop them happening.

That is, by definition, actual terrorism. Attacking a civilian population to achieve a political goal. It doesn't matter how awesome or not your goal is.

You're going to find the same issue with that approach that most violent people do - people resist and fight back. Several rioters have already found out that lesson.

> This is completely different to an entitled middle...

No, not really. Insurrectionists will also discover their nonsense will not be tolerated.

> it's naive and misleading to suggest the two are somehow equivalent.

Stop using violence to achieve political ends. See? Easy.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#227

Post by FriendlyNormie » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

fooey wrote: post #215

chrisseaton wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people are idiots. I think 'these people are idiots' is an easy thing to think but almost always the wrong thing. Few people are idiots. Most people are just as smart as you are. More likely, these people fundamentally aren't looking at the situation like you are. Probably, they don't care what you, or the police, or the FBI, or anyone else, think about what they're doing and don't care how they're being trac…

They're zealots, and some of them are very capable and very determined. Writing them all off as idiots is dangerous

No post body was provided.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#228

Post by ALittleLight » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:21 AM UTC

krastanov wrote: post #217

minikites wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>loot the Capitol Then they should be shot on sight. The only reason they weren't fired upon is the color of their skin.

This attitude really saddens me. We should be advocating for all protestors to be treated with such gentle touch, not for all protestors to be brutalized the way BLM protestors were. Thankfully, this is the attitude I have heard from most BLM leaders.

I agree that the comment you are responding to is saddening, but I disagree with the characterization of the Capitol protesters as being treated with a "gentle touch". One unarmed woman was shot and killed, others were maced, beaten etc. Three other protesters died from causes that I've just seen described as "medical". This hardly seems like evidence of a light touch to me.

In my estimation the Capitol Police were some combination of surprised, unprepared, under-equipped, and under-manned. The police didn't seem to have any plans or preparation. Some police are seen standing aside and letting protesters in to the Capitol (which, I agree is a light touch, but I also saw police kneeling in solidarity with BLM protesters, which is also a light touch). Other police are brawling with protesters (which, I think is probably about the right level of violence, we just needed more police to be there doing it and for all the police there to understand what they were supposed to be doing).

I don't think the police should shoot Capitol protesters or BLM protesters. I do think they should use physical force against both when they do things that are unacceptable - e.g. entering the Capitol or destroying or looting stores. I would say both groups call for a similar medium touch.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#229

Post by mjevans » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:26 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #193

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #35

Baofeng's, Baofengs everywhere. Of all the images I have seen of the attempted coup, I have only seen baofeng radios. These are very cheap ($20'ish) radios that work very poorly (they splatter all over the bands) even when equipped with decent antennas. They barely work when equipped with the stock rubber-duck antennas. It's easy to be a snob about the type of radios that they are using, but that's not even the point…

> These people are idiots. I think 'these people are idiots' is an easy thing to think but almost always the wrong thing. Few people are idiots. Most people are just as smart as you are. More likely, these people fundamentally aren't looking at the situation like you are. Probably, they don't care what you, or the police, or the FBI, or anyone else, think about what they're doing and don't care how they're being trac…

> They don't feel the need to hide.

Exactly; a good portion of them probably really believe that somehow #45 could order, and authorize, the things that happened. The rest were probably just looking for a strong opportunity to go full anarchy and guns equal power moment.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#230

Post by mjevans » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:34 AM UTC

generalizations wrote: post #208

nikitaga wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone. Your cell service provider holds the license. Ham radio exam is not hard, and does not require special training, just some basic knowledge of how radios work and what the regulations are. I don't see what the issue is.

You're missing the point. I would only bother to take the exam if I could use my radio for encrypted packet radio. I'd love to set up a long range meshnet, but it's only useful if it's encrypted. There's a lot of fundamental infrastructure decentralization that can happen once some of the HAM frequencies allow encrypted use.

They're only useful precisely because they aren't being used for that.

What you really want instead is something like the HAM license allowing the use of point to point equipment at higher power and on frequencies reserved for operators that respect the communications medium.