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China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

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Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#151

Post by personjerry »

apple_innocent wrote: post #149
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #7

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

Is this a mirror/proxy of Github. IP address registered to company in Singapore. Domain registration has mainland China physical address: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25842028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21472212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21472433

Looks like a proxy, not a mirror to me, because it's showing GitHub's bot protection page.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#152

Post by alisonatwork »

greggman3 wrote: post #121
dcolkitt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem to be doing pretty well, economically-speaking. This is all relative. In an absolute sense, China's level of economic development on Bulgaria, Mexico or Kazakstan. They've had a long period of high growth, but that's only because of the abject poverty the Maoists left the country in. Before Deng's reforms, the country was essentially North Korea. China's prosperity is much more of a "most-improved award"…

Visiting China (Shanghai, Beijing, Nanking, Hangzhou) they all seemed like modern cities. Shops, restaurants, enormous shopping centers, coffeeshops, co-working spaces, theaters, bars, dance clubs, etc... Other than knowing I happened to be in China it certainly appear that in day to day life things are pretty good and the experience of living is similar to living in any modern western city.

Looking only at the cities, and especially tier one/tier two cities, is not a great way to get a picture of the real-world living conditions of the average person in China.

While it is true that hundreds of millions of Chinese live moderately prosperous lives, and enjoy many of the same luxuries that people in developed countries do, there are also hundreds of millions of Chinese who are still living in relative poverty (both relative to people in developed countries, and relative to the country's own urban, educated class).

In November last year the government declared that they had met their target to lift all of China out of extreme poverty by 2020, but that just means that nobody lives on a dollar a day any more. There are still a lot of subsistence farmers in rural areas, and there is still a large underclass that powers the urban economy by working for very low wages in factories, on delivery routes and so on.

China has come a long way in a relatively short period of time, and that's worth applauding, but it still faces some big challenges in raising the quality of life for all its citizens. I'm not an economist, but I expect that there will be a point where the growth can't continue because there won't be enough of an underclass to provide all the services that the current "middle" class takes for granted. I think the government is hoping that by that point either automation or outsourcing will be able to fill the gap.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#153

Post by novok »

sudosysgen wrote: post #145
dcolkitt wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese numbers are from 2019. The American numbers are from 2015. If anything the comparison strongly disadvantages the US, since there was robust growth in the latter half of the decade.

Can you use a single source that contains the numbers for both China and the US, please? For such data points that have a lot of very different possible methodologies it's quite important to use the same source or ensure that the methodology is exactly the same.

I think that is an unreasonable request for rigor for a casual internet forum comment. That amount of rigor you have to pay for, and at this point I think it's reasonable for you to do your own research and present such normalized numbers.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#154

Post by howlgarnish »

apple_innocent wrote: post #149
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #7

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

Is this a mirror/proxy of Github. IP address registered to company in Singapore. Domain registration has mainland China physical address: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25842028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21472212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21472433

That's not going to help a user in mainland China, because Singapore is a separate country and on the wrong side of the Great Firewall.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#155

Post by novok »

dcolkitt wrote: post #120
scarmig wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no reason to believe that Xi Jinping thought can produce an economy that in any way is competitive with liberal capitalist democracy. Isn't it already? Speaking broadly of economic trends for the past 30 years, China has dominated manufacturing, at levels of increasing sophistication. To the extent it's running into issues, it's been a victim of its own success: laborers in China are increasingly too expens…

You're confusing having a very large population at middle income for being a developed country. China is four times larger than the largest developed nation. Even at Bulgaria-level income development, that guarantees that they'll "dominate" most aggregate measurements. Doesn't really say anything about the success of their economy. Even within their area of strength, manufacturing, China severely lags the liberal dem…

DJI I think is another good example of chinese tech exports. Phone & TV manufacturers also do a lot of exporting, huawei makes some of the best cell phone cameras out there and if we don't count that then we can't count samsung's TV & handset tech exporting too, which is responsible for a good chunk of south korea's exports in general.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#156

Post by logicchains »

sudosysgen wrote: post #101
dcolkitt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem to be doing pretty well, economically-speaking. This is all relative. In an absolute sense, China's level of economic development on Bulgaria, Mexico or Kazakstan. They've had a long period of high growth, but that's only because of the abject poverty the Maoists left the country in. Before Deng's reforms, the country was essentially North Korea. China's prosperity is much more of a "most-improved award"…

It's not just most-improved, it's actually the best economic system in large countries (thus more easily corrupt) that were not benefactors of classical imperialism if all you care about is development. This is simply an incontrovertible fact - India, Nigeria, Congo, etc... were in similar initial conditions and fared much worse economically. Far from being worse than liberal capitalist economies - which are the majo…

>It's not just most-improved, it's actually the best economic system in large countries (thus more easily corrupt) that were not benefactors of classical imperialism if all you care about is development. This is simply an incontrovertible fact - India, Nigeria, Congo, etc... were in similar initial conditions and fared much worse economically.

Compared to countries with a similar culture/demographics: Hong Kong, Korea, Singaporem Japan and Taiwan, mainland China's growth has been way slower.

>It's also set on escaping the middle income trap in 2-5 years as GDP per capita goes above 12500$, which is something that most liberal capitalist economies cannot achieve.

This is still only around a fourth of the GDP per capita in the other East Asian countries.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#157

Post by secretcombos »

worker767424 wrote: post #31
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #7

They want to block Github entirely because Github allows for the free flow of information (politically sensitive information, not just code) and they don't have a way of doing currently without just blocking all of Github... Which would be bad for business, and China also seems to be entering the software business in a bigger way. Actually, if you want to send large amounts of text information to users in China right…

How long before this strategy backfires? When does the CCP hurt itself because it stifled innovation? When does it have political problems because it suppressed the wrong thing? I can't tell if this style of governing is super robust or a house of cards.

[flagged]

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#159

Post by howlgarnish »

dcolkitt wrote: post #120
scarmig wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no reason to believe that Xi Jinping thought can produce an economy that in any way is competitive with liberal capitalist democracy. Isn't it already? Speaking broadly of economic trends for the past 30 years, China has dominated manufacturing, at levels of increasing sophistication. To the extent it's running into issues, it's been a victim of its own success: laborers in China are increasingly too expens…

You're confusing having a very large population at middle income for being a developed country. China is four times larger than the largest developed nation. Even at Bulgaria-level income development, that guarantees that they'll "dominate" most aggregate measurements. Doesn't really say anything about the success of their economy. Even within their area of strength, manufacturing, China severely lags the liberal dem…

Yes, China punches under its weight in software, and yes, China's services are not particularly visible in the US, but I assure you they're already making a huge impact, particularly in the developing world, and that impact is only going to growing in the next 5-10 years.

Alibaba/Aliexpress are massive for consumer online shopping, particularly in Russia & Eastern Europe. Alipay payments are increasingly accepted across SE Asia. JD.com (which nobody ever hears about, but is considerably larger than Ali) operates directly and indirectly in many SE Asian countries.

Tencent Games owns and operates a huge slew of globally popular games, including Fortnite, League of Legends, the Supercell suite (Brawl Stars, Clash of Clans etc). Yes, most of these games are still produced primarily in the West, but for long?

Trip.com has been run out of China since 2017 since it was acquired by Ctrip. Meituan/Dianping dominate food delivery in China and are started to branch out to other markets like Australia and Singapore.

Re: China wants to build an open source ecosystem to rival GitHub

#160

Post by higerordermap »

vgchh wrote: post #80

Thing is that in the big picture, it's not just that China is building a replacement for GitHub. China is building a replacement for everything that matters and accelerates their transition to be the Super Power. And they have been doing so for last 30 years, just that now it's hitting a critical mass and world is waking up to it. And I think, we, The West, have been getting it wrong. We are looking at China like a j…

China's main power is cheap labour. Without it no US company does manufacturing in China. They are hardly obsessed about progress rather than control.
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