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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#491

Post by makeworld »

d0100 wrote: post #471
Pfhreak wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violence is not categorically bad, I don't think. Rarely, violence is necessary in self defense. It might be the option of last resort, but sometimes violence can stop worse consequences. I'm not justifying any particular actions that anyone has taken in specific, just objecting to the categorization that it is always bad. (For example, someone suffering from domestic violence might strike back in an effort to escape…

It doesn't matter if violence is necessary, it is still bad

What does this mean? If something is necessary, is it not justifiable? If it is justifiable, how can it be bad?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#492

Post by kommissar »

zionic wrote: post #482
asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

Patiently waiting for Apple and google to remove the facebook app, and AWS to... well... say they can’t join AWS someday.

They use aws for some things. For example, https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/machine-learning/facebook-uses-...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#493

Post by Romanulus »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #266
alwaysdoit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

Far-right terrorism in the US has never really been taken seriously. No one took them seriously. Until the Capitol was attacked. The Feds are starting to roll up high ranking militia members, so hopefully they learned their lesson this time.

Do you honestly call that an attack? Hate to sound harsh, but: https://imgur.com/a/KEt7pFD

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#494

Post by King-Aaron »

sojournerc wrote: post #479
King-Aaron wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition - 'the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims' - seems to fit the event we're discussing.

Yup, and Antifa and BLM have caused fear in Portland for political reasons as well. They lit the mayor's apartment building on fire, but were not called out as terrorists. The media is not even handed here.

Yes, there is credence to the old saying: "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter".

But I really don't think we need to devolve to whataboutism here. We're talking about the actions of people storming the capitol building, to try and say 'yes well X group of people are also terrorists' is a completely moot point and an intentional deflection.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#495

Post by elihu »

nostromo wrote: post #421
whoknew1122 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far-right terrorism in the US has never really been taken seriously. No one took them seriously. Until the Capitol was attacked. The Feds are starting to roll up high ranking militia members, so hopefully they learned their lesson this time.

The rush to call the storming of the capitol terrorism is really misplaced. By adopting words like "terrorism" you're paving the way for an overreaching response from lawmakers and law enforcement -- something that will likely end up being used against a cause you might support, like BLM. Firstly, nobody was terrorized. No, this wasn't "our 9/11." I doubt it'll even be a topic of conversation in a few years, just lik…

The capitol was ransacked by a non-homogeneous group as far as I can tell. Some people were probably there just to wave some flags and take some selfies, as you suggest. Others were erecting gallows, setting bombs at the RNC and DNC headquarters, breaking windows, carrying zip-tie handcuffs into the building, actively searching the building for Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, fighting with the police, and so on. (This is just the stuff we know about.)

I think it would be a stretch to call all the rioters terrorists, but I think a lot of them would fit any reasonable definition and they were well-organized, intentional, and numerous. Even if a terrorist attack is unsuccessful or does not kill or injure a large number of people that doesn't make it not terrorism. And I think there was a real risk that members of Congress could have been kidnapped, injured, or killed if things had gone a little bit differently.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#496

Post by jancsika »

edbob wrote: post #203
BoorishBears wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you've been living that you didn't hear about the night Trump went into a bunmer. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/secret-service-took-trump-t... https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-05-31... https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2020/05/secr... You'll notice some very interesting words there in the Secret Service write up: > No individuals crossed the White House Fence…

From your own source: > Numerous Secret Service agents were injured, fires set by rioters blazed near the White House and authorities were searching for car bombs > The official initially put the number of agents injured at over 50, but that may have referred to the weekend toll; the Secret Service has since said the number injured on Sunday was 14. 50 people injured is a serious attack. It's interesting that leftist…

> It's interesting that leftists are allowed to continue their violent attacks for days, weeks, or months while right-wing movements are immediately suppressed.

Why the passive voice here? Who exactly is doing the "allowing?"

From what I saw both Capitol police and Secret Service were doing the dual job of trying to de-escalate while securing the premises.

The obvious difference is that a) there weren't enough Capitol police so the Capitol got breached, and b) we still don't know why that was nor who may have aided the trespassers in breaching it.

That's the stuff of cheapo action movie plots. If there's a persuasive argument for believing group.chooseAtRandom() similarly breaching the White House wouldn't generate the same amount of outrage and fear, I haven't read it.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#497

Post by sol_invictus »

zarkov99 wrote: post #338
jjoonathan wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand we have hooligans using a crowd as cover to get away with property damage. On the other we have hooligans organized for the express purpose of overturning the results of a democratic election. In the case of BLM, the crimes don't reflect on the movement's overall purpose. Nobody expects property damage to be a vehicle for police reform -- it's an argument for more police presence, if anything. In the case…

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

This has been the left’s rhetoric for eons. They always excuse their actions because of their ”noble” goals. Same regarding policy - its the stated goal that matters, not the end results and real-world consequences of their policies.

Having a convicted terrorist as a director of their beloved BLM movement means nothing. Lofty ideals matter.

Invading a city block means nothing. Lofty ideals matter.

If you don’t think the people who did CHOP and Capitol are equally dangerous to society, you’re wilfully turning a blind eye.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#498

Post by tantalor »

abvdasker wrote: post #316

What is the purpose of the NSA and FBI if they can’t prevent something this obvious? Wasn’t the supposed bargain that nearly unlimited surveillance of Americans would prevent terrorism? What should be done with agencies incapable of fulfilling their most basic functions?

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#499

Post by mattnewton »

kabdib wrote: post #447
qppo wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen these calls for surveillance. I have seen calls for sedition charges against the politicians that encouraged it and law enforcement that ignored the evidence of coming insurrection.

Crypto wars II. Barr was making noises about banning strong domestic cryptography again, a few months ago. It's a Democratic party trigger, too, so don't expect this to change much. [Can you fine folks in California vote out Feinstein? She's long past her best-used-by date]

I’ve tried but no smart up and coming democrat wants to start their career by poking the party establishment in the eye, so we largely don’t get great challenging candidates. And california republicans have the albatross of what the national Republican Party has become around their neck in the state.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#500

Post by efwfwef »

asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

> their decreasing popularity

FTFY: in the US

> repeated scandal and failure

At this point what large company hasn't had breaches or cancelled projects? Hell, is your company doing OK in terms of security? Are they hashing passwords correctly? How large is the security team? My company doesn't even hash passwords...

At some point you need to stop living in a bubble and recognize that plenty of people, businesses, communities, etc. rely on the app in a positive way.

I can understand that you're not using it, or think it's evil, but not everyone shares your opinion.

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