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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#451

Post by unanswered »

Triv888 wrote: post #301
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great example of other unwanted content that is more or less impossible to find on mainstream platforms, or even most seedy porn sites, or even the underbelly of the internet that was Parler.

It was apparently easy to find on Pornhub not long ago which is very mainstream? I usually go for the mature category to avoid it... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-ra...

That article is very homophobic and you probably shouldn't be citing it. It's pretending that the only porn that exists is depicting women.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#452

Post by vkou »

nostromo wrote: post #435
vkou wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The violence and property damage wasn't the problem. Democracies can survive some broken windows, stolen laptops, and yes, even people getting hurt and killed at a protest. This sort of thing has happened for decades and centuries. What they can't survive is groups of thugs that don't like the result of an election, and go off to physically prevent its results from being honored. That is unprecedented.

> What they can't survive is... And yet, here we are, democracy intact.

Democracy only works because we all believe that it works.

When that belief is shattered, and people no longer believe in a peaceful transfer of power, you get violent transfer of power.

I think it's far too early to make such a claim. Wait till 2022, or 2024, or 2028. This genie is not going back in the bottle without putting up a fight - not while its being egged on by opportunistic mainstream politicians.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#453

Post by Lammy »

alwaysdoit wrote: post #138
stretchcat wrote: post #78

It was planned for months, openly on Facebook in plain view of everybody. Remember that when politicians call for more intrusive surveillance in response.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

TPTB like when certain tragedies happen because it catalyzes public support for laws they want to pass.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#454

Post by eganist »

nostromo wrote: post #440
eganist wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firstly, nobody was terrorized. I can count six DC-area thousand+ employee firms that provided grief counseling in response. And as a reminder, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism - even if a subset of people implemented violence with political ends in mind (breaking in, beating innocent people, attempting to take hostages, all in the name of overturning a legitimate election), at the very least, that subset me…

If you expand the definition of terrorism to such an absurd degree (anybody who may need grief counseling) you're diluting actual terrorism. The Pulse nightclub is what real terrorism looks like. And the Christchurch shootings. And 9/11. The storming of the capitol was not at all similar.

> If you expand the definition of terrorism to such an absurd degree (anybody who may need grief counseling) you're diluting actual terrorism.

> The Pulse nightclub is what real terrorism looks like. And the Christchurch shootings. And 9/11.

> The storming of the capitol was not at all similar.

Interesting. What makes 9/11 a terror attack that doesn't similarly make the Capitol Insurrection one? Because they both left a similar imprint on the people, and they were both implemented by groups with extremist ideologies and political objectives in mind.

I note that you tossed the reference to the definition of terrorism and focused on grief counseling. Interesting decision.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#455

Post by krapp »

nostromo wrote: post #421
whoknew1122 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far-right terrorism in the US has never really been taken seriously. No one took them seriously. Until the Capitol was attacked. The Feds are starting to roll up high ranking militia members, so hopefully they learned their lesson this time.

The rush to call the storming of the capitol terrorism is really misplaced. By adopting words like "terrorism" you're paving the way for an overreaching response from lawmakers and law enforcement -- something that will likely end up being used against a cause you might support, like BLM. Firstly, nobody was terrorized. No, this wasn't "our 9/11." I doubt it'll even be a topic of conversation in a few years, just lik…

>doubt it'll even be a topic of conversation in a few years, just like we don't talk about 1983 United States Senate bombing today at all.

Unlike the Senate bombing, the Capitol attack was the coda on four years of the American right wing and Republican Party sliding into fanatical racism-fueled conspiracy theory on behalf of, and encouraged by, the most hated President in American history losing his damn mind about not winning a second term.

I mean, Trump was already going down in history based on his personality, Twitter trolling and all around incompetence even before he purposely undermined and politicized America's COVID response, creating the atmosphere of fear and paranoia that led to armed marches in the streets. And then came the "stop the steal" movement, which had already committed violence prior to an armed insurrection against the government itself.

People will definitely still be talking about this in a few years. People will be writing theses on this. You could argue this isn't "our" 9/11, but only for the relative lack of violence. In terms of the repercussions on America's cultural, social and political landscape, it is, and it isn't leaving the cultural consciousness for a long time.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#456

Post by failrate »

nostromo wrote: post #435
vkou wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The violence and property damage wasn't the problem. Democracies can survive some broken windows, stolen laptops, and yes, even people getting hurt and killed at a protest. This sort of thing has happened for decades and centuries. What they can't survive is groups of thugs that don't like the result of an election, and go off to physically prevent its results from being honored. That is unprecedented.

> What they can't survive is... And yet, here we are, democracy intact.

These actors haven't finished. The pattern so far is that the current admin has tried every single dirty trick they could muster to avoid leaving power. Even if something happens to Trump today, these folks will recrystallize around a new cult leader.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#457

Post by zaroth »

jasonlotito wrote: post #442
zarkov99 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

> What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? CHAZ: An occupation. They weren't killing anyone. They weren't trying to kill people. They literally setup a community garden. Capitol Hill attack: An insurrection. It was clearly a violent rebellion against the government of the US, with people actively working to kill the VPOTUS and members of the government. I can easily see…

In fact there were two shootings within a week in “CHAZ”, and one of the victims died.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#458

Post by King-Aaron »

nostromo wrote: post #444
King-Aaron wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm deeply saddened to see so many people on Hacker News trying so hard to downplay this.

Saying something wasn't terrorism doesn't mean it wasn't unlawful or stupid or terrible. It just means it wasn't terrorism.

The definition - 'the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims' - seems to fit the event we're discussing.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#459

Post by reubenswartz »

cogman10 wrote: post #265
s__s wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it happened, there was a reporter on CBC talking about how it was common knowledge in DC for a long time that there was a protest planned there. So indeed. The real question is why was there seemingly no preparation to handle it.

Yup, that's what really stinks about these protests. You could go to several social media sites and see the 6th plans. It was incredible to see so few Capitol police guarding the capitol. Further, the fact that they didn't employ things like tear gas sooner was incredible. They just sort of let the rioters through the weak barriers they setup. Security HAD to have known this was coming. This wasn't some secret plot.…

That's why trump replaced his secretary of defense after he lost the election. That's why they didn't bring in requested national guard troops. (if I understand the situation, Trump never authorized the NG, as he was cheering on the coup from the WH, and the guard deployed bc Pence was pleading for it, which has its own weird constitutional issues.)

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#460

Post by eganist »

nostromo wrote: post #435
vkou wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The violence and property damage wasn't the problem. Democracies can survive some broken windows, stolen laptops, and yes, even people getting hurt and killed at a protest. This sort of thing has happened for decades and centuries. What they can't survive is groups of thugs that don't like the result of an election, and go off to physically prevent its results from being honored. That is unprecedented.

> What they can't survive is... And yet, here we are, democracy intact.

> > What they can't survive is...

> And yet, here we are, democracy intact.

You keep cutting off quotes without including the relevant details. You need to stop doing that. The original quote:

> What they can't survive is groups of thugs that don't like the result of an election, and go off to physically prevent its results from being honored. That is unprecedented.

The last part of that sentence you cropped (emphasized by me) didn't come to pass because it was interrupted by Capitol contingency plans and Shelter In Place protocols, among other things. It very well could've been successful; we're lucky to not know that outcome.

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