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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#441

Post by unanswered »

wutbrodo wrote: post #191
exmicrosoldier wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the first legitimate critique of the Black Lives Matter organization that I've seen. I don't think it invalidates all of the points of the platform of BLM, but it does make me question the sanity and legitimacy of the organization's leadership.

I don't mean this unkindly, but your information diet has incredibly serious problems if you haven't come across any legitimate criticisms of the BLM org in the past. As someone whose pet issue has been police and justice system violence for a really, really long time, I really wish BLM wasn't the organization/movement representing this particular struggle[1]. The 2020 iteration is a little more connected to reality…

If BLM isn't the face of the justice reform movement, then why is the capitol riot the face of the "the election was stolen" movement?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#442

Post by jasonlotito »

zarkov99 wrote: post #338
jjoonathan wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand we have hooligans using a crowd as cover to get away with property damage. On the other we have hooligans organized for the express purpose of overturning the results of a democratic election. In the case of BLM, the crimes don't reflect on the movement's overall purpose. Nobody expects property damage to be a vehicle for police reform -- it's an argument for more police presence, if anything. In the case…

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

> What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection?

CHAZ: An occupation. They weren't killing anyone. They weren't trying to kill people. They literally setup a community garden.

Capitol Hill attack: An insurrection. It was clearly a violent rebellion against the government of the US, with people actively working to kill the VPOTUS and members of the government.

I can easily see the differences. So can many others.

> What childish madness.

It's childish madness to treat the two as the same.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#443

Post by root_axis »

mindslight wrote: post #342
root_axis wrote: post #270

This has very little to do with technology. This is a culture war, and after the capitol riot the culture has shifted to openly reject the losing ideology. Conservatives are right to fight the threat of censorship because there's always a possibility this could slide out of control, but the rest of society is right to push back until they decide to drop the election fraud lies that are tearing this country apart.

As someone who is sympathetic to both cultures, this has been painful to watch. Now that it's time for the powers that be to punish the red tribe, the blue tribe is all too happy to join in the authoritarianism - eg feigning outrage at the gallows (ignoring the guillotine symbolism of the past year), assertions that speech must be policed, and calls to take right-wing terrorism "seriously" (meaning attack red tribe p…

> As someone who is sympathetic to both cultures, this has been painful to watch. Now that it's time for the powers that be to punish the red tribe, the blue tribe is all too happy to join in the authoritarianism - eg feigning outrage at the gallows (ignoring the guillotine symbolism of the past year), assertions that speech must be policed, and calls to take right-wing terrorism "seriously"

You're equivocating around the elephant (no pun intended) in the room. Members of authority on the red team have been actively working to overturn the election since they were voted out and those attempts finally culminated in a deadly attack on the capitol. These big tech companies are policing speech, but they are doing so on their own platforms based on a philosophical opposition to the message of sedition that 50% of the red team is pushing. These companies are saying "enough is enough, if you spread election fraud misinformation you are not welcome here", that's perfectly reasonable, and forcing these companies to rebroadcast this message is the only example of authoritarianism present in this debate.

> (meaning attack red tribe protests with the same zeal as blue tribe protests)

This is false. Any leader on the blue team will say they would prefer all citizens be treated well rather than all citizens be abused. I'd be interested if you had any examples demonstrating otherwise.

> the tech angle is how such nonsensical propaganda took over the red tribe so strongly

There's a little bit of tech to it, but this was happening on cable news and talk radio long before it was happening on the internet, the only difference is that twitter is massively popular whereas Fox News is not. If Fox News had 180 million prime time viewers we'd all just say "well, they could just watch MSNBC is if they wanted!"

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#444

Post by nostromo »

King-Aaron wrote: post #437
nostromo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rush to call the storming of the capitol terrorism is really misplaced. By adopting words like "terrorism" you're paving the way for an overreaching response from lawmakers and law enforcement -- something that will likely end up being used against a cause you might support, like BLM. Firstly, nobody was terrorized. No, this wasn't "our 9/11." I doubt it'll even be a topic of conversation in a few years, just lik…

I'm deeply saddened to see so many people on Hacker News trying so hard to downplay this.

Saying something wasn't terrorism doesn't mean it wasn't unlawful or stupid or terrible. It just means it wasn't terrorism.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#445

Post by MrGazzo »

tessierashpool wrote: post #208
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? This is incendiary and false.

What an incredibly helpful comment.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#446

Post by lambda_obrien »

nostromo wrote: post #435
vkou wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The violence and property damage wasn't the problem. Democracies can survive some broken windows, stolen laptops, and yes, even people getting hurt and killed at a protest. This sort of thing has happened for decades and centuries. What they can't survive is groups of thugs that don't like the result of an election, and go off to physically prevent its results from being honored. That is unprecedented.

> What they can't survive is... And yet, here we are, democracy intact.

Are we? Because to me there are huge cracks opening up. Death toll isn't the important part about terrorist attacks, it's the responses that count, and the response to this seems about the same or more extreme as 9/11 to me, and I lived through that on a military base. I don't remember 25k troops being deployed into DC for 9/11.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#447

Post by kabdib »

qppo wrote: post #429
stretchcat wrote: post #78

It was planned for months, openly on Facebook in plain view of everybody. Remember that when politicians call for more intrusive surveillance in response.

I haven't seen these calls for surveillance. I have seen calls for sedition charges against the politicians that encouraged it and law enforcement that ignored the evidence of coming insurrection.

Crypto wars II. Barr was making noises about banning strong domestic cryptography again, a few months ago. It's a Democratic party trigger, too, so don't expect this to change much.

[Can you fine folks in California vote out Feinstein? She's long past her best-used-by date]

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#448

Post by unanswered »

wccrawford wrote: post #313
dgellow wrote: post #272

Off topic thing. > Two different “occupy” event listings were written in a Nazi-style font and began circulating on Facebook in December. Do they mean a gothic/Fraktur style? Is that considered nazi in the English world? I’ve always learned it as a German script with no relation to the 3rd reich. Edit: I off course understand that neo nazi use it to express their relationship with nazi Germany, I’m just surprised to…

We live in an age where anything used by bad people is now bad, no matter how it was used in the past. That goes all the way from clear things like the swastika to not-so-clear things like the 'ok' hand sign. Yes, there are people who say you shouldn't use 'ok' hand signs now because it's used by an extremist group. So if neo-nazi use a font, that font is now, to those kinds of people, only a neo-nazi font.

> it's used by an extremist group.

If you have a legitimate source for this (i.e., not probably citogenesis https://xkcd.com/978/) I'd be very interested. As far as I can tell this was essentially made-up and has been spread via the citogenesis cycle ever since.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#449

Post by whatthesmack »

baud147258 wrote: post #370
ryandrake wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what’s also chilling? Major tech platforms choosing to publish, amplify, and normalize: white supremacy, antisemitism, serious calls to violently overthrow democracy, conspiracies about the deep state cabal of satan-worshiping pedophiles, the health benefits of drinking bleach, denial of well understood scientific facts, etc. These things are fine for the town square, since people have free speech, but nobod…

which mythical social media platform choose the amplify and publish "white supremacy, antisemitism, serious calls to violently overthrow democracy", because those I know were and are removing such content

Seriously. That is stuff that nearly everybody's against and is a constant boogeyman brought up by many on the left, but they can't ever seem to demonstrate that it is a pervasive problem. Nobody admits to being a white supremacist because it's basically universally denounced.

But those same folks will happily excuse the whole BLM/Antifa rioting during 2020 where billions of dollars in property damage was caused and dozens of people died.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#450

Post by DangitBobby »

efwfwef wrote: post #335
bananabreakfast wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's chilling how quickly radical terrorist groups have coalesced around using social media to coordinate their hatred and their attacks. A scant few years ago, America actively fought terrorists instead of encouraging and facilitating them.

It's chilling how we moved the blame from books and video games to social networks, wondering what will be next, VR?

This is powerful willful ignorance.
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