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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#411

Post by dragonwriter »

thoughtstheseus wrote: post #402
dragonwriter wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why did the guncrazy far right militants leave their guns at home? Because despite their public rhetoric and willingness to carry guns when they don’t expect law enforcement opposition, they realized that their only chance of success at the Capitol was to not be treated by law enforcement the way that law enforcement (including the Secret Service) would treat a visibly-armed mob surrounding the Capitol during proce…

How did they coordinate not bringing guns? Or did they each individually realize this strategy without coordination? I think you’re giving them too much credit here.

I agree that “realized their chance of success” makes it more group-strategic than is probably warranted.

“Realized that the likely law enforcement stance likely at the Capitol would make visibly carrying a firearm increase their personal risk rather than their effectiveness” is probably more accurate.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#412

Post by shard972 »

Pfhreak wrote: post #255
throwawaygulf wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stoo spreading fake news. >The first shooting in the protests was by someone driving into a crowd who claimed to have a brother who worked in the east precinct. Wrong. The first shooting came after an argument between leftists escalated. No vehicle involved. >The second shooting does not have a clear connection to the protest occupants. The Police chose not to help the shooting victim (and the reason for the shooting…

I went through the Wikipedia page the parent posted and summarized them. The first shooting that I saw was the man who drove a vehicle into a crowd. The crowd attempted to stop him, and he shot a protestor. Go read the wiki page and the sources it links yourself.

it must be true if its on a wiki

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#413

Post by r00fus »

kibwen wrote: post #388
r00fus wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Following orders" isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card. If LE didn't speak out, they are co-conspirators.

Well, "following orders" can absolutely be a get-out-of-jail-free card when the orders come from the person in charge of handing out get-out-of-jail-free cards.

Considering the person in charge giving out said cards is going to be out of office tomorrow, that excuse is going to have less and less use going forward.

The constitutionality of "future-effective" pardons is in question. There's also the question of if those pardons will even be issued (does he care enough).

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#414

Post by giantg2 »

rtkwe wrote: post #244
giantg2 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should know about jury nullification. I feel it's a violation of a right to a fair trial if the jury doesn't understand all the options, including that one. The questions don't really mean much. People could honestly answer that they will apply the law, but how can they if their understanding of it is flawed, especially since that question takes place before the judge educates the jury on the law?

> Everyone should know about jury nullification. Prosecutors would really rather you not because it has the chance to completely screw their case and they already put a lot of effort in maintaining conviction records. Also it's one of those things where it's not officially an option there's just no punishment available to prevent it. It does mean something you can say yes or no to 'will you rule based on the law and…

Frankly, I'm more interested in justice than what the prosecutor thinks.

Also, for number 15, I can but may choose not to. So basically a worthless question.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#415

Post by free_rms »

manfredo wrote: post #401
r00fus wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rolled, and let go on bail? [1] Or just released with a stay-away-from-DC order? [2] The discrepancy between how BLM and white nationalists are treated is staggering. [1] https://apnews.com/article/arrests-florida-nancy-pelosi-capi... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/01/14/judg...

There was a varied response to BLM riots. In my city, BLM demonstrators - or at least people purporting to be part of BLM - declared several city blocks an autonomous zone. The zone's security forces subsequent killed several people (among them, ironically, an unarmed black 16 year old). It took the city 3 weeks to clear out this zone, and it was done without lethal force. By comparison, the people occupying the Capi…

Worth mentioning that the only lethal force in the capitol was when they were breaching the barricades where (I think) VIPs were being guarded.

That's lethal force in self-defense, not lethal force to clear out the protest.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#416

Post by seneca »

_r0fz wrote: post #121
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

idk how to tell you this in a way you'll listen to but doing things for good reasons is good and doing them for bad reasons is bad.

> doing things for good reasons is good and doing them for bad reasons is bad.

"Things are justified because I support them or unjustified because I don't support them".

This is how children and narcissists think. Reality is that a lot of arguments are really this with a layer or two of post-hoc justification though.

I can't tell if this post was meant as a joke, but if it wasn't it's either impressively self-aware or completely and utterly lacking self-awareness.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#417

Post by _-david-_ »

g8oz wrote: post #300
_-david-_ wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple cops were killed by blm rioters. Sure they weren't capital police but they were still police. ACAB was all over Facebook and Twitter which at a minimum raised the temperature and hatred towards cops.

Do you have links? I only heard about the Boogaloo right wing extremists using the cover of the protests to kill police in Oakland and Santa Cruz. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings

I don't have links or time to find a list but

David Dorn was a retired black police officer killed.

Shay Mikalonis was shot in the head, but survived. He is paralyzed from below the neck.

And to add. The rhetoric has likely been causing the increase in cop killings this year. As of July it was up 28%. https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officers-killed-surge-28-ye...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#418

Post by jjoonathan »

zarkov99 wrote: post #338
jjoonathan wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand we have hooligans using a crowd as cover to get away with property damage. On the other we have hooligans organized for the express purpose of overturning the results of a democratic election. In the case of BLM, the crimes don't reflect on the movement's overall purpose. Nobody expects property damage to be a vehicle for police reform -- it's an argument for more police presence, if anything. In the case…

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

Equating a bunch of dumb activists taking over six city blocks to an attempt to overturn the election of POTUS is "intellectual honesty"?

Look, I'll agree that everyone involved with both CHAZ and the Capitol Riots needs to go to jail. That includes Donald Trump, though. He was the one trying an end-run around the US electoral process in order to hold on to power for four more years.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#419

Post by flukus »

simonh wrote: post #364
throwaway_6142 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can somebody explain, since this was a long planned coup attempt against a Capitol that has its own police force, in a capital that has one of the largest and most heavily armed police forces in the world, why did the guncrazy far right militants leave their guns at home? And instead behaved mostly like an out of control protest with a few dozen violent rioters? It is a very peculiar way to attempt to overthrow a gov…

A lot of the protesters have said they expected the police to be largely on their side. I suspect that when things got violent both the armed rioters and police realised that guns would just end up in a blood bath on both sides, and the first person to shoot on either side would probably end up dead pretty quickly.

I suspect the police weren't shooting because they realized how overwhelmed they were. I've seen a couple of videos where they had drawn their guns and prepared to fire but they were simply surrounded.
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