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Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

dvorak.substack.com

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Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#21

Post by jmclnx »

The issue is not with the Electoral College, but with the artificial limit on the House of Representatives. The limit of 435 Reps skews the numbers.

House of Representatives is suppose to be 1 Rep per a fixed number of people. But Congress put a hard limit of 435, that means Small States have more people per Rep than Large States.

For example, Wyoming has 1 Rep for 480900 people.

California has 1 rep per 736000 people. To be fair and agree with the original intent of the US Constitution, California should have about 82 Reps instead of 53.

Texas for that matter should really have 52 Reps instead of 36 as it as now. The way it is now it has one rep per 700279 people.

Fixing that limit should solve a lot of problems

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#22

Post by godelski »

Why is the conversation always "abolish vs keep as is?" The EC seems like a good idea that brings equity to a diverse nation but needs some updating as things have changed dramatically since its creation. There are other possible changes that might help, like removing the winner take all situation. But just basing on popular vote alone creates the same problem we're in but from the other direction. We need cities but we also need the rural areas (like our farm lands) and we need to represent both. But rural areas will never have the population size/density of cities. We shouldn't let fly over states decide the elections just the same way we shouldn't let California and New York decide them. There's got to be a better solution here that provides good equity.

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#23

Post by war1025 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #8
projectileboy wrote: post #3

I get where this comes from, but it’s very obviously wrong. It acts like media is the only group with money and influence. Many, many, many interests depend on the voting power that the Electoral College supplies to resource-rich states out west. I’d bet my left arm that the Electoral College will not disappear in my lifetime.

The beef about the electoral college is similar to the beef about the Senate filibuster -- terrible when it benefits the other guy. Modern marketing for political campaigns will adapt either way. It's pretty easy for campaigns to target demographics, and I'm sure that a GOP candidate could pull the right strings to get a plurality vote. Hispanics, for example, are the weak link in the Democratic tent, as are asians w…

> I'm sure that a GOP candidate could pull the right strings to get a plurality vote

There was a bunch of hubub on the Right in the fall about a Democrat win leading to Democrats tilting the tables in all sorts of ways that would lead to a "permanent Democrat majority".

I always came back to the same point as you, two-party politics will naturally self-balance at a pretty even split.

At a city / state level, you might be able to maintain one-party control through various levels of corruption / influence, but the nation itself is way too fickle to put up with that for long.

The weak link in the current majority will always tend to switch sides as soon as it appears that they might gain an advantage by doing so.

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#24

Post by welcometomiami »

> This dichotomy between the two types of states along with constant usage of the terms "divisive" and "divisiveness" by the media (and now the politicians themselves) promotes the notion that we are splitting apart along political lines in ways that we've never witnessed before. This is hardly true as any history professor will attest.

Citation needed

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#25

Post by mreome »

godelski wrote: post #22

Why is the conversation always "abolish vs keep as is?" The EC seems like a good idea that brings equity to a diverse nation but needs some updating as things have changed dramatically since its creation. There are other possible changes that might help, like removing the winner take all situation. But just basing on popular vote alone creates the same problem we're in but from the other direction. We need cities but…

While I understand your point, the counter argument to this is "Land doesn't vote, people do." Why does someone deserve to have greater representation because they live on a larger plot of land in a different part of the country? Why does someone in a big city deserve to have less representation?

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#26

Post by rendall »

dragonwriter wrote: post #20
darth_avocado wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^this. Yes while it may be true that media will benefit from this, it almost virtually guarantees no more Republican presidents. Given that the House is also trending in that direction, the only real place where power still remains with the Republicans is the Senate. Too many mega corporations benefit from keeping the Dems out, (taxes, employee rights, minimum wage, etc.) and they will fight tooth and nail to maintai…

> it almost virtually guarantees no more Republican presidents. No, it doesn’t, unless the Republican Party doesn’t adapt to changing conditions as it has continuously since it’s founding. It probably guarantees the Republican Party will realign slightly around some peripheral issues to shift it's geographic focus slightly while retaining it's core economic message, and continue on without breaking stride.

There will always only be Democrats and Republicans, and because the system is a duopoly, when people get sick of one they will exercise their choice to revolve again to the other, round and round and round. Republicans are no more "finished" by Trump than Democrats were finished by Clinton.

Dislodging the duopoly (that is, opening the electoral system to 3rd parties) will require proportional representation full stop. Nothing else will do.

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#27

Post by yokaze »

pmoriarty wrote: post #17
darth_avocado wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^this. Yes while it may be true that media will benefit from this, it almost virtually guarantees no more Republican presidents. Given that the House is also trending in that direction, the only real place where power still remains with the Republicans is the Senate. Too many mega corporations benefit from keeping the Dems out, (taxes, employee rights, minimum wage, etc.) and they will fight tooth and nail to maintai…

"the only real place where power still remains with the Republicans is the Senate" And the Supreme Court, and many lower courts, which have been packed with Republicans. Not to mention the military and the police, and probably the intelligence agencies too.

Technically, they are judges at court and should rule according to the law not their political leanings.

I am aware that is not necessarily true, but it is also in the self-interest of the judges to be perceived as impartial, otherwise they loose their authority.

Police, military and intelligence agencies are government agencies, and are part of the executive. They should do their job irregardless of who is in power. A lot of high ranking people have worked through several administrations because they simply do their job, irregardless of their political leanings. Partisanship is harmful for those people, as it threatens their job security.

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#28

Post by ogre_codes »

trident5000 wrote: post #12

This article says nothing about how it will be banished and is more like a wish. You need 2/3 of states to change and ratify the constitution. Its not even close to being banished.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Though I suspect any changes are likely to happen on the state level. More likely is individual states switch to splitting their electoral votes based on actual vote counts.

Thats a bit fraught though since unless you have some kind of parity it would instantly screw up the current balance.

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#29

Post by war1025 »

raiyu wrote: post #14

Given that republicans have lost the popular vote in every election since 2000 I don't see them getting on board with going to a straight popular vote anytime in the near future to determine the Presidential election.

> Given that republicans have lost the popular vote in every election since 2000

They also just don't devote resources in heavily blue states for the Presidential race.

Why work to gain votes in a race you will lose anyway? Particularly given that you can win without putting in that effort.

Campaigns are optimized for the rules as they exist. Changing the rules changes the game. Just because the proposed rules look favorable to one side doesn't mean that they would remain that way if the changes took place.

Re: Why the Electoral College Will Be Banished

#30

Post by pmoriarty »

godelski wrote: post #22

Why is the conversation always "abolish vs keep as is?" The EC seems like a good idea that brings equity to a diverse nation but needs some updating as things have changed dramatically since its creation. There are other possible changes that might help, like removing the winner take all situation. But just basing on popular vote alone creates the same problem we're in but from the other direction. We need cities but…

If most people live in the cities, I don't see an argument for letting rural areas have more than their proportional share of representation.
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