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NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

novelwriter.io

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Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#161

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

michaericalribo wrote: post #91
vikingcaffiene wrote: post #88

This has no word export option (unless I missed it) which makes it infeasible for a lot of writers. Like it or not, docx is the format a lot of folks in mainstream publishing expect. Context: My partner is a published author and I've pitched stuff like this at her on multiple occasions as an alternative to Scrivener. In addition to her laughing at my insistence that markdown is a superior way to write, she cites the…

Just to add here, the question is not “is markdown (or tex or binary strings or...) better”, but “can the person who determines whether I get paid open the file?” The fiction publishing world is cutthroat competitive. Trying to use nonstandard tools / “breaking the mold” adds even more friction to success.

I'm an author and an software engineer. I can see why Markdown could be slightly better for a writer - but not much better - and honestly it seems like a step down for an editor.

Primarily, all a writer does is write plain text. Probably less than 1% of sentences are anything other than plain text.

There's not a lot of headings or titles. There's not a lot of italics or bold text.

What else is there? What am I missing? What's the benefit?

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#162

Post by spoiler »

vikingcaffiene wrote: post #88

This has no word export option (unless I missed it) which makes it infeasible for a lot of writers. Like it or not, docx is the format a lot of folks in mainstream publishing expect. Context: My partner is a published author and I've pitched stuff like this at her on multiple occasions as an alternative to Scrivener. In addition to her laughing at my insistence that markdown is a superior way to write, she cites the…

From the documentation:

> The core export format of novelWriter is HTML5. You can also export the entire project as a single novelWriter Markdown-flavour document. In addition, other exports to Open Document, PDF, and plain text is offered through the Qt library, although with limitations to formatting.

So it seems like it can export to Open Document, which seems to be well-supported[1]; including Microsoft Office support.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Application_suppo...

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#163

Post by 13415 »

app4soft wrote: post #139
progx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? You know a better tool that does the work?

> You know a better tool that does the work? Yep, KIT Scenarist .[0] [0] https://github.com/dimkanovikov/KITScenarist

Not even remotely...

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#164

Post by michaericalribo »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #161
michaericalribo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add here, the question is not “is markdown (or tex or binary strings or...) better”, but “can the person who determines whether I get paid open the file?” The fiction publishing world is cutthroat competitive. Trying to use nonstandard tools / “breaking the mold” adds even more friction to success.

I'm an author and an software engineer. I can see why Markdown could be slightly better for a writer - but not much better - and honestly it seems like a step down for an editor. Primarily, all a writer does is write plain text. Probably less than 1% of sentences are anything other than plain text. There's not a lot of headings or titles. There's not a lot of italics or bold text. What else is there? What am I missin…

Ha! This is a really interesting perspective—I think you're saying, "it's all plain text, so there's no advantage to using Markdown instead of docx".

I think others have an opposite view, but on the same grounds. The argument seems to be: it's all plain text, so docx is overkill, so markdown is more technically efficient!

There's some benefit to using the tool I know best (emacs, for me), so it's nice to use a "native" format that also gives me my usual keybindings, macros, etc.

But there's no doubt it just offloads the inefficiency to a different step of the process. I'm more comfortable with inputting text, but it requires post-hoc reformatting, and I'd have to use a different word processor for post-editor changes...

The "markdown is a more efficient solution from a technical perspective" argument doesn't hold a lot of weight with me...the practical overhead of docx is minimal, so unless you prize technical purity over all else, I don't think there _is_ a benefit.

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#165

Post by pwinnski »

I used Scrivener (MacOS) for my first novel, but I did not use most of the features of the software. Now it's stuck as the last remaining 32-bit app on MacOS, and I've debating whether to pay for an upgrade or use something else for novel #2.

I've learned about this at a very good time!

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#167

Post by therealdrag0 »

Bakary wrote: post #114
chank wrote: post #17

Outside of the more technically inclined; Does anyone who is a long-form (novel) writer actually use markdown? Outside of blogging, which it was invented for and makes total sense for syntax conversion of free formed text to html is there any real use for it? Obviously you don't have to use it if you don't want to, but it sort of feels odd to me that all these developers making writing/notes apps that neglect rich te…

I keep seeing references to markdown editors on HN. As a non-tech person it would have never crossed my mind to use something like this to write a novel or even keep notes, but it seems to really strike a chord here. Perhaps it's simply the comfort associated with code over a long period of time?

Part of it might be preference for plain text files with no vendor lock-in.

Or it might be preference for explicitness, we've all fought with rich editors bleeding format from one word into another and struggling to un-format the text at the right location.

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#168

Post by lhorie »

vikingcaffiene wrote: post #88

This has no word export option (unless I missed it) which makes it infeasible for a lot of writers. Like it or not, docx is the format a lot of folks in mainstream publishing expect. Context: My partner is a published author and I've pitched stuff like this at her on multiple occasions as an alternative to Scrivener. In addition to her laughing at my insistence that markdown is a superior way to write, she cites the…

> markdown is a superior way to write

Is it though? I don't have any experience with book authoring but I would expect stuff like Geronimo Stilton to be hard to produce with markdown: it is peppered with creative text highlighting (e.g. words written in a custom cheese-pattern font) and this is common in primary school geared books.

Even decidedly grown-up books like GEB might have illustrations and diagrams, and it's important to consider where said illustrations go - they must fit in a physical page.

There are also other small quality of life things that word does automatically, e.g. replace ASCII 0x22 (keyboard quote) with 0x201C / 0x201D (left and right double quotes, respectively), etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love to use markdown for programming documentation and it's pretty good for that, especially when you adopt flavors like GFM. But I'm legitimately curious what makes one consider markdown superior for book writing. It just seems like it would have a different set of priorities.

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#169

Post by nix23 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #151
nix23 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you hate the Unix philosophy....for conversions use pandoc. A Song of Ice and Fire was not written with Word.

> A Song of Ice and Fire was not written with Word. When startups haven't even started up yet but are worrying about how they can scale to billion-dollar unicorn level, a common refrain on Hacker News has been "you are not Google." Allow me to give you the fiction writers' equivalent: you are not George R.R. Martin.

The output is md....dont you think you can convert that too let's say docx? You don't even have to be Google todo that.

And if you want to let it proof read by George R.R. Martin you can even convert it to WordStar....magic eh? Pandoc can do that...your MS Word too?

Re: NovelWriter 1.0 – A markdown-like editor for writing novels

#170

Post by ajarmst »

I don't get it. Why "markdown-like". Do people writing novels have some need that is unmet by an existing flavour of markdown? Because I have to say that the last thing that ecosystem needs is yet another flavour. I thought the entire point to markdown was that you didn't need a special editor. Which of course has done nothing to reduce their mushrooms-in-a-damp-cellar proliferation.
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