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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#921

Post by throwaway894345 »

sanderjd wrote: post #887
jacquesm wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially you're talking about roughly 33% or so of the American electorate, that's bound to get some downvotes, I wouldn't sweat it, note the good guys, upvote them where you can and stick around to stop it from sliding away even further. And yes, it is annoying. Also: typically it corrects itself in the longer run, so don't take a snapshot like this as the end state.

I've been here for almost 15 years and this is not some normal blip. It's true that the 2016 comment threads (the only corollary to this that I have seen) sucked, but they were not dominated by the toxic as this one is. It is not true that a third of the population is partaking in apologetics for violence. But it is true that more than half the community here appears to be. Thanks for your reply, though.

No one here is "partaking in apologetics for violence"; everyone is condemning the violence. Some people (myself included) are pointing out that while this event was violent and violence is never acceptable, that it alone wasn't a serious threat to our democracy, it wasn't a real insurrection, etc. The violence needs to be prosecuted, but no one needs to hang for treason.

To your point though, this forum does occasionally flirt with violence. Over the summer, some were waxing poetic about how "riots are the language of the oppressed" and arguing that burning someone's business to the ground isn't violence but rather "just property damage". Some were arguing that antifa and other violent groups were "freedom fighters" and so on. So yes, it does get pretty toxic here, but this thread isn't it.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#922

Post by Bakary »

cccc4all wrote: post #150
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Always question everything you are told, especially by central authorities, mainstream popular media, etc. Seek out information from variety of sources and discern the truth from fiction. What you may think is evidence may be completely opposite of what it actually is. Especially any narratives that are pushed to convince people to voluntarily give up privacy and freedoms. Just look at all the regular people going ar…

While I agree in principle, the easiest way to fall for propaganda is to believe yourself immune to it.

I would advocate for a two-track solution where you keep a healthy skepticism but try to be aware of your own pareidolia and possible lack of understanding of certain topics, and accept the idea that we are just jumping from one bubble to another (notice how "question the narrative" people tend to speak and think along the same tropes?)

I don't mean total skepticism of everything for its own sake, but the idea that a person ought to pick their battles carefully and keep reminding themselves that they can't understand the world as easily as they think they do. It's important not to confuse skepticism for insight or critical thought.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#923

Post by surajrmal »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I tend to think of it like free market capitalism. It sounds great in theory, but in practice, it has some major downsides and regulation is necessary to help deal with that.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#924

Post by FireBeyond »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #638
FireBeyond wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fucking stupid? It seems at this point to be quite likely deliberate. Multiple requests for aid were refused, or ignored. The security at the Capitol was half the size as it was when a group of army veterans marched for disabled vets rights a few years ago. That's not fucking stupid, that's an entirely deliberate and reasoned choice.

That is the million dollar question. Why were there so few police present? (so far I've read that Congress didn't want the optics of armed guards). Why weren't more barricades up? There are a dozen plus failures here, throughout many offices. Conspiracy theorists would say it was less security to allow for chaos, which in turn gives further justification to pushing legislation / controls that take away freedoms. All…

> What I don't like is that statement that all protestors were part of the incident. Just as all of the BLM protesters weren't a part of the riots, evidence shows the same is true for those that rallied.

Certainly. If you protested and didn't breach the perimeter, you were doing exactly what BLM protestors were doing. Disclaimer: I say this as an objective statement on the action, and not a commentary on the relative merits of either movement.

You breached the perimeter, and entered the Capitol? Now we're somewhere else.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#925

Post by slg »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #921
sanderjd wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been here for almost 15 years and this is not some normal blip. It's true that the 2016 comment threads (the only corollary to this that I have seen) sucked, but they were not dominated by the toxic as this one is. It is not true that a third of the population is partaking in apologetics for violence. But it is true that more than half the community here appears to be. Thanks for your reply, though.

No one here is "partaking in apologetics for violence"; everyone is condemning the violence. Some people (myself included) are pointing out that while this event was violent and violence is never acceptable, that it alone wasn't a serious threat to our democracy, it wasn't a real insurrection, etc. The violence needs to be prosecuted, but no one needs to hang for treason. To your point though, this forum does occasio…

>Over the summer, some were waxing poetic about how "riots are the language of the oppressed" and arguing that burning someone's business to the ground isn't violence but rather "just property damage".

When you put violence against property and literal murder on the same moral footing you are being an apologist for more severe violence. Property can be replaced. Businesses can have insurance. The murdered police officer and the 4 other dead people aren't coming back.

People really need to stop equating BLM with what happened on 1/6. Not all violence is created equal. 1/6 was much more egregious.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#926

Post by Aerroon »

cortesoft wrote: post #237
Aerroon wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free expression is chaotic. It always has been and it always will be. It will always have lies and misinformation, some people will even believe the lies. But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. Speech that is free will always seed doubt against ideas, regardless whether those ideas are true or false. It's an avenue that allows anything to be questione…

> But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. This is the really tricky part, though... absolute free expression only prevents people from enacting total control if it persists; however, free speech is not something that can’t be undone. This is a form of the paradox of tolerance. If people use their absolute free speech to push lies and propaganda that al…

This is why the value of free speech needs to be protected. If enough people holds this value then it becomes difficult for anyone to change it.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#927

Post by ogre_codes »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #607
ogre_codes wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, Amazon had given notice to Parler that they want some moderation that is automated... What are the specs for that? What would satisfy Amazon? Can it be delivered within that timeframe setting aside whatever else is going on? What makes you think Parler is interested in complying with the terms of the contract at all? The only benefit of Parler over Twitter or Facebook is the fact that you can say things which…

> Why? If you are a startup for a recipe making app, Suppose someone posts a recipe for making marijuana brownies. Will you moderate that post? If you did not moderate that post, does Amazon AWS have a right to terminate your account for allowing your users to promote illegal behavior?

I'm not an expert on Amazon's TOS, you can read/ interpret them same as I can. The part which I have seen and is in the lawsuit between Amazon and Parler specifically mentions harming others, so pot brownie recipes would likely not be affected.

If you run a site where illegal or even borderline legal activities are commonly discussed, it would be a good idea to talk to a lawyer.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#928

Post by edbob »

yongjik wrote: post #838
edbob wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best guess is that liberals stopped reading higher in the thread. I would hope that moderates and conservatives would not find those claims very credible, but perhaps they do or are not so offended as to downvote. I was personally fine with the integrity of the election right up until censorship ramped up. Now I have zero confidence that I would hear about any problems. I still don't think the election was "stolen…

What censorship? The president himself was saying the election was stolen from him for two months and that was basically the only thing the nightly news talked about (other than COVID) every day. At some point we should be able to say "Enough, evidence or GTFO," without being accused of silencing discussion. We're way past that point.

I don't know anything about what the nightly news ran. All I know is that when my news sources got around to talking about it, a couple days later it's "oh I have to be very careful what I say about this, I already got a notice threatening a ban". From my perspective, the period of free discussion was extremely limited.

I'm not at all sympathetic to the "we have to crush this viewpoint" camp since they amplified Hillary's claims of a "stolen election" for years. [0] You can't tell just one side "evidence or GTFO" and expect anyone to take you seriously. Especially when the new narrative is that elections are fair and unstealable, which directly contradicts the claims of an unfair stolen election in 2016.

[0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019...

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#929

Post by bryan_w »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I'm going to just take a guess that the hundreds of replys basically regurgitating talking points have not helped your thoughts. I dunno what the answer is, but good luck man, it's a scary world we live in right now.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#930

Post by ogre_codes »

foolinaround wrote: post #893
ogre_codes wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies for a second reply. > forget court cases, Parler - what its doing etc. So we'll just pretend we can rewind to back prior to the Capitol riot & clown show. Got it. > So far, one looked as AWS as infrastructure just like your electric, phone or gas company - going forward, there will be a re-think here. If we "forget about Parler", why would a tech CTO think any differently this week than they did the prior w…

my friend, how will they melt away? It just was'nt imagined. If we step back to 2018 - No BLM, no capitol riots -- no one would even imagine a AWS pulling the plug. As a startup, it used to be a no-brainer to start on AWS first. The advice given then was not get entired by AWS goodies that locks one to the platform, but one never thought much of using EC2 What i started arguing for was that there will be an interface…

> If we step back to 2018 - No BLM, no capitol riots -- no one would even imagine a AWS pulling the plug.

There has always been content which you cannot host on Amazon. Prior to Parler, Amazon booted Wikileaks, Amazon also doesn't host pornography, there are other carve-outs as well.

You are highly indexed on this one event, but it's not unique or particularly eye opening. 8chan suffered a similar fate for exactly the same reason as Parler.

If your business relies on hosting certain types of content, your options are greatly limited (and have been for almost from the start). This kind of speech is more toxic than pornography and it's treated as such. Business owners are capable of making this kind of distinction, or they can hire legal to help with it.

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