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Local rules instead of global censorship

redecentralize.org

171–180 of 221 posts

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#171
There was a debate (not a formal debate but a theme I saw in numerous articles) in the 90's (or maybe early 2000's) among Middle East experts who were involved in pro-democracy movements, about whether or not cracking-down on radical Islamist movements was counter-productive even when they were close to, but not directly involved with, violent extremists.

The idea was that by including such violent-adjacent (but not directly violent) people into the political mainstream, they would be over time deradicalized even if they might praise violence abstractly, they would eventually become invested in the political process and participate.

Many of the articles discussing this talked about how socialist movements of the early 20th century often started out radical but then became centrist.

On the other hand, cracking down on the violent-adjacent would just further radicalize them and push them into the violent underground.

The debate became something of a moot point eventually, in the 90's it looked like democracy advocates in many Middle Eastern countries would gradually gain power and would need to make decisions about whether or not to crack down, of course that did not happen (except in Tunisia, where I think this debate still has some significance).

Anyways the current discussions about whether or not to "deplatform" the far-right remind me a little of these debates in the 90's. Of course, deciding whether or not to "deplatform" is very different than deciding whether or not to round-up and jail everyone, and so the parallels are strictly limited.

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#172
post #33

I prefer the Web over the Fediverse. Blogs +RSS/microformats/Webmention are decentralized, and with much better support and accessibility. ActivityPub seems to me an overcomplicated restrictive implementation of blogging.

What do you define as the Fediverse?

My understanding of the term is that RSS & Webmentions are part of the Fediverse. Email is probably the best-known part of the Fediverse. ActivityPub is just a new/upcoming technology that's as much a part of the Web as RSS.

Not everything in the Fediverse is part of the Web: email, mastodon & matrix are examples that exist outside of the Web (though mastodon is mostly Web-based, and there is also webmail, Element webapp, etc.).

And obviously, not everything in the Web is part of the Fediverse: mainly Facebook, but also most SaaS out there.

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#173

> After all, nothing really changed in President Trump’s rhetoric, or in the wild substance of QAnon conspiracy theories What "rhetoric"? A sitting politician complained for fraud. Such complaints are a dime a dozen in elections all around the world. Heck, that's what the other side complained about too, in 2016, and has a long history in US politics. And if he "orchestrated" a walk-in into the Capitol (where nothing…

Comparing a deadly coup attempt and a direct attack against the representatives and the VP himself in the US capitol the day that the election results were certified by the Houses with random protests?

>Comparing a deadly coup attempt and a direct attack against the representatives and the VP himself in the US capitol the day that the election results were certified by the Houses with random protests?

No, comparing some random people getting into a government building in protest, being basically tame inside, and business continuing as usual the very next day (or same?).

That was a "coup"? What was the plan to establish the new government? Who was the leader? The guy with the horns? The ex-president who didn't care less about the incident, and called for people going home?

And it was only deadly because in the US people are trigger happy, and even getting out of your car, unarmed, to a traffic cop, can be deadly. Even so, from what I read a guard was killed in an altercation with the mob, and a protestor was shot by police. A few others had "medical emergencies".

Pearl clutching aside, I wouldn't even call it a "violent protest", much less a coup...

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree with such a broad statement covering a period of, what, 600 years. Neither do I agree with the premise that leaving small communities alone, not having the populace or these communities a say in larger affairs, and limiting access to te community decisions to a select few people to be more democratic than our current system.

> broad statement covering a period of, what, 600 years not only was it long period but the Middle Ages are only ever brought up by people educated by a Western/ized idea of history. My point stands because we would never hear of systems that "worked" in a decentralized way because required power structures would have never been in place for them to leave any impact that people will feel should be noted in the histor…

This is a criminally underratef observation. Well said.

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#175
post #58

I believe the premise of the title. But the main question should be: why? And the article does not really answer that, well beyond censorship. I think the reason why centralization is a danger to democracy, is because of lobbying. Lobbying is much easier in a centralized power structure. See how much lobbying goes on in and around the power centers of this world: DC, Brussels, London. Lobby is power for money, democr…

> I believe the premise of the title. But the main question should be: why? And the article does not really answer that, well beyond censorship.

There's two types of articles around politicized topics like this:

1. Those dealing with Why: for the unconverted

2. Those dealing with How: for the converted

Both types are necessary, but I feel often articles that are being read by "the converted" spend far too long trying to deal with the "Why" (preaching to the converted). So this article is refreshing in that sense.

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#176
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your last sentence. Is electricity free only for those who collect social welfare?

Yes. You have to be a Finnish citizen with no income to qualify. Everyone not participating in the capitalist economy (by owning business or being employed at one) is essentially a government/military reserve employee on indefinite paid leave receiving a budget that covers virtually all living expenses to quite a reasonable standard. And it's baseline , every citizen eligible, other obligations withstanding. You'd ha…

>not participating in the capitalist economy

Does this definition include people who actively refusing to be employed, or is there any kind of law obligations to work?

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely not call democratic a power system where the common has absolutely no legitimate say in deciding whether or not his polity is going to be at war with another ( with the consequences of having their crops, family,etc... wiped off the surface of the earth )

by that definition which country in the world is then a democracy today? I'm not being flippant and think your point is really important because it touches on the definition of what we even mean by "democracy", and using your yardstick beautifully illustrates that the only democracy possible would be a hypocrite one. To use an example of our time: we hide our crimes in the complexity of global supply chains and by co…

I was objecting to the extreme situation in the middle age where in theory, war was a god given right that flowed from the top. I tend to think that democracies live on a spectrum. What you would call hypocrisy, I would call it finding ways to deal with the current contradictions of people aspirations. It's always the first stepping stone.

One advantage of a political system accepting hypocrisy and compartimentalization as statecraft tools is that at some point in the future, it will have to reconcile parts of its actions with its stated values.

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#178
post #36
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I can help out. Basically anyone who “foments discord” or “sows disharmony”. You know, people who say things that cause us to stray from The One True Path(tm). Clear now?

So, basically anybody opposed to the TINA.

Clearly not. It's anyone opposed to the woke culture and neo-liberalism camouflaged in a social democratic platform.

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing a deadly coup attempt and a direct attack against the representatives and the VP himself in the US capitol the day that the election results were certified by the Houses with random protests?

> Comparing a deadly coup attempt and a direct attack against the representatives and the VP himself in the US capitol the day that the election results were certified by the Houses with random protests? No, comparing some random people getting into a government building in protest, being basically tame inside, and business continuing as usual the very next day (or same?). That was a "coup"? What was the plan to esta…

You do realize a laptop was stolen to give to Russian intelligence, right?

>Pearl clutching aside, I wouldn't even call it a "violent protest", much less a coup...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhjRXO72v1s

Coup? Meh, agreed, it wasn't organized by the military. Violent protest? Absolutely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwbhC2Un2Y

Re: Local rules instead of global censorship

#180
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that system, how do you care for folks who experience rare but serious difficulties. The tyranny of the majority gets real complex when dealing with massive populations.

Empathy works as long as you don't create a us vs them situation. > The tyranny of the majority Has that ever happened or is that just an argument to let politicians keep their power?

> Has that ever happened or is that just an argument to let politicians keep their power?

Yes? American history is full of situations like Jim Crow, redlining, anti lgbtq legislation, lack of support for people with disabilities, criminalization of people experiencing homelessness, etc.

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