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Is Bitcoin a Scam?

theguardian.com

51–60 of 106 posts

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#51
post #24

- Proof of work is inherently wasteful. - The ever expanding blockchain is wasteful (in storage, computation, network). - Having every transaction recorded forever is the opposite of anonymity ("pseudonymous" - come on!). - The energy usage is insane. - The throughput is way too slow. While there may be an anonymous digital currency that doesn't use a lot of energy, it probably has to be based on something other than…

Etherium 2.0's move to proof of stake will help with the ridiculous energy usage that bitcoin has, but I don't see a blockchain ever being able to handle the traffic of a major card processor like visa. Even with sharding, your latency between shards compounds to the point where the UX is degraded.

What I see value in for a blockchain is store of value (which arguably is basically a pyramid scheme), smart contracts for provable logic-based transactions, niche database uses, and as you brought up: drugs (or more accurately, private/anonymous payments). Bitcoin is really a poor choice for both the smart contracts and niche databases, which leaves it with store of value and drugs. Once law enforcement legislates it to the point where it becomes impractical for drugs, at that point it is just a store of value. It holds no use except to become more valuable the more people buy into it, which is just a pyramid scheme.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#52
post #24

- Proof of work is inherently wasteful. - The ever expanding blockchain is wasteful (in storage, computation, network). - Having every transaction recorded forever is the opposite of anonymity ("pseudonymous" - come on!). - The energy usage is insane. - The throughput is way too slow. While there may be an anonymous digital currency that doesn't use a lot of energy, it probably has to be based on something other than…

[deleted]

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#53
post #33
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with some guys and I could never work out why they were doing things the way they were. I didn't really interact with what they were doing that much so I just assumed they were experts in the area and I just didn't understand. Overtime I ended up working with them more and more and I started looking at what problems they were solving and how they were approaching it. The more I looked the more I didn't under…

The question of value is one of the most fundamental ones in economic theory. It's got nothing to do with crypto currencies or technology in general. If you really want to understand why we consider Bitcoin valuable (and btw: fiat money, too) go google for "subjective theory of value" and, more specifically, "regression theorem".

But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything?

The Regression Theorem, first proposed by Ludwig von Mises in his 1912 book The Theory of Money and Credit, states that the value of money can be traced back ("regressed") to the goods and services it obtains. In other words, money is backed by some commodity that has intrinsic value.

Recently, there has been a debate about applying Regression Theorem to Cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.[1] Since Bitcoin (for instance) is not backed by any commodity, it appears to fail the definition of a currency according to the Regression Theorem. Others hold the view[2] that Bitcoin does fit the definition as it is at once a payment system and money, with the source of value being the payment system.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#54
post #47

The amount of FUD in every Bitcoin-related thread on HN is mind boggling. The network is decentralized, permissionless, pseudonymous and cheap. It is a stable protocol and layer 2 solutions are being built upon it to address the downsides blocking every day use. He who controls the money, controls the world. The control is slipping and the roaches are starting to run around in panic.

Costly signalling theory is what I'd suggest to all the folks on this thread that struggle to wrap their heads around the wastefulness of it all...

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#55
post #24

- Proof of work is inherently wasteful. - The ever expanding blockchain is wasteful (in storage, computation, network). - Having every transaction recorded forever is the opposite of anonymity ("pseudonymous" - come on!). - The energy usage is insane. - The throughput is way too slow. While there may be an anonymous digital currency that doesn't use a lot of energy, it probably has to be based on something other than…

> Proof of work is inherently wasteful.

But it's a necessary evil for a _distributed_ currency. It's a way to protect payment validation from being controlled by a single operator by making a "hostile take over" very expensive. IMHO criticizing Bitcoin for its "proof of work" algorithm only converys a serious lack of understanding of how crypto currencies actually work.

There is an alternative, namely, the "proof of stake" scheme that Ethereum is going to switch over to but it has other short comings that might or might not outweigh the benefits of energy savings.

> - The ever expanding blockchain is wasteful (in storage, computation, network).

Well, the blockchain's current size is 323.54 GB. That's quite a lot but can be stored easily on a $100 SSD. Using $100 worth of storage to maintain an asset market of roughly 600 billion dollars is useful trade off, I would say. Of course, I know the blockchain is being replicated all over the planet but Google's cloud storage probably dwarves its storage requirements.

> - The throughput is way too slow.

Yes, 10 minutes is not very fast. However, compare that to inter bank transactions and this number seems blazingly fast again. However, in my opionion Bitcoin is emerging as an alternative to gold that's primarily used for storing value over long times. It's primary purpose will not be to maintain payment networks. This role will be taken by Ethereum or other alternatives like Stella Lumens, Loopring or Polkadot.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#56
post #8

>Is x a scam because I don't understand it/I'm priced out? Uh, no. Though fiat currency is definitely a scam.

A cryptonerd once asked me ironically "what actually backs the US dollar?" My response was "11 aircraft carriers that will park off the coast of any country that refuses to recognize it."

"Fiat" at this point is just a loaded term used to try and dismiss all the things that actually make money worth something. Regulation, governance, monetary policy, and enforcement.

The second someone finds a repeatable double spend attack in bitcoin, the whole market cap crashes to zero and everyone will be screaming "why isn't anyone stopping this???"

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#57

A little reminder - How to Buy Bitcoin (The CO₂-Friendly Way): 1. Take one $50 bill, five $10 bills, or ten $5 bills (I wouldn't recommend change - stay with paper money). 2. Go to the bathroom. 3. Lift the lid of the loo. 4. Throw money in. 5. Flush down water. Congrats! You just purchased $50 worth of Bitcoin - without fucking the planet! -- Trolly McTrollface Find more best of crypto (bitcoin) quotes @ https://git…

Doesn’t deserve to be down voted. If the estimates of the energy Bitcoin uses are accurate, then now we have a moral imperative to not use Bitcoin. That could be a really important consideration.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#58
post #37

A minor point about the podcast: Alex Hern misunderstood the process that Craig Wright, the self-processed founder of bitcoin (Satoshi Nakamoto), needed to go through to prove that he was indeed Satoshi. Alex says that Craig needed to "move the first bitcoin ever created", while in reality Craig needed to sign a message with a private key. Because of how bitcoin is made, the very first bitcoin block (the "genesis blo…

On a side note, I’m starting to suspect that Bitcoin, and Satoshi Nakamoto, is an internal NSA job.

And Satoshi must be the alias name for some cryptography expert, or experts, inside the NSA itself.

Hah, and even if you rearrange the words, its acronym is NSA. Like, Nakamoto SAtoshi. I just noticed that.

And maybe the architect behind it, used a Japanese origin name, to throw people off their trail. To pin it to some foreign country, instead of the United States government.

After all, who else can keep a big secret like this? And laugh all the way to the bank. While trolling the entire world, at the same time.

Some ideas:

1. The Satoshi Nakamoto guy on the message boards, wrote in perfect colloquial American English. Even his sense of humor was American. His grammar was perfect, and similar to a Millennial/Gen-X aged American. Like, he grew up chatting on AIM and ICQ back in the 90s and 00s. And probably on BBS message boards back in the 80s and 90s.

2. Satoshi mined the originating Bitcoins, and they are incredibly valuable now, and worth around $8.8 billion dollars in mid 2020. Who wouldn’t cash out on it, and realize all the gains, or even some of the gains? How about some super secret organization, that specializes in cryptography. And especially an organization that doesn’t immediately need the money.

3. Bitcoin mining is consuming a ton of electricity. Increasing carbon pollution, and depleting natural resources. There is only one other country that is generating so much electricity, that a large percentage of it, goes straight into Bitcoin mining. You can guess for yourself which country this is.

I don’t think this was intentional, but maybe a side effect is that it will bankrupt other competitor countries that the USA does not like.

4. Maybe another strategic end goal is to trick others to put their money into Bitcoin, and wait until it becomes very very valuable. Like, 100 or 1000 or 1 million times more valuable than it is today, it’s a very long and patient wait, then the US Federal government will pass a law declaring the Bitcoins to be illegal tender. And will then pass another law to forcefully seize all private Bitcoin assets, like the way cops take candy from a baby, with their Civil Asset Forfeiture policy.

Who knows. All this is just fun conjecture. Maybe there really is a Satoshi Nakamoto out there. But, I’d probably believe Santa Claus is real, before I believe that cover story.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#59

It's a tech prototype that enabled large-scale gambling. It was an idea for a monetary revolution that got sidetracked by those with large enough capital. You can barely buy bitcoin without an ID and a credit card these days except if you wanna do it insecurely via transacting with an unknown party that contains bitcoins via cash. Why do people evangelize it that much? 1. They want the monetary gains. 2. They are dee…

>It's a tech prototype that enabled large-scale gambling.

Worse than that. But there is a dimension hinted at in the article that makes this not a good asset either. That is, the fact that a dozen or two large syndicates have deployed specific specialized hardware located in Iceland, Iran, Venezuela, and China etc., is not a reasonable guaranty of the future security of compute and network power in the system. Simply having computer power now linked in a global Internet does not bestow real world power. The U.S., E.U., have strong currencies backed by real world strength. Bitcoin on the other hand is a commercial ledger for drug, fraud, gambling, extortion, and money laundering transactions. It's the modern day Barbary Pirates, or take your pick of any other geographically-centralized pirate community. As pirates learn, when they achieve a sufficient notariety, entity-decentralization ceases to be a true protection.

It's been 10 years, Bitcoin still is as useless as it was in 2010, but it steadily is gaining notoriety.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Scam?

#60
It is a revolutionary black hole for gamblers but also for normal people, enabled by intentional behavior of the global financial institutions.

The rug will be pulled from under Bitcoion, and when it happens, the disruption will be revolutionary as well. Until then ride the tiger with caution.

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