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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#801

Post by flippinburgers »

jessedhillon wrote: post #456
jldugger wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People marched into the capitol with handguns, zip ties, and an intent to award the presidency to the loser. I'm not waiting for someone to actually succeed before I declare them insurrectionists, and I don't know why you want to minimize the threats made against Congress, which did not stop that day: https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/no-bail-for-qanon-... If you want to compare it to something, I would recom…

> an intent to award the presidency to the loser How would they have done that? Nobody would listen to a bunch of hooligans pronouncing orders from the House rostrum. In a coup, someone like a general is waiting to hear the signal to throw in with the coup leaders, providing actual institutional power to the usurpers. There was no institutional power behind these people -- do you think some general at Andrews was wai…

They should be punished to the full extent of the law.

In the meantime, people who continuously talk about insurrection seem to be living in a fantasy land. Just as you say, without the military the "insurrection" means nothing.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#802

Post by morganw »

nyolfen wrote: post #710
XorNot wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean pipe bombs were found at both political party headquarters, so how many bombs is enough to be serious?

puerto rican nationalists stormed the capitol and shot congressmen in 1954; leftists literally bombed the senate chamber in 1983; we somehow managed to persist without restricting civil liberties both times. have you ever even heard of these events? i would wager most of us haven't. this time though, they had a 10,000 page anti-terror bill waiting in the wings and ready to push through, a dark reminder of the patriot…

> puerto rican nationalists stormed the capitol and shot congressmen in 1954;... we somehow managed to persist without restricting civil liberties both times.

Because Puerto Rico already had the Ley de la Mordaza since 1948. Also Pedro Albizu Campos had his pardoned revoked.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#803

Post by unethical_ban »

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

You fundamentally blow off the concept of symbolism, or the fact that the attempt itself matters, not just its success.

You make light of a violent mob chanting "hang Pence" as they march toward him, and yes, in light of "not being able to overthrow the government", you fail to convince me some would not have tried to capture or kill politicians.

In short, you are waving your hand and claiming persecution as if Truth, Justice and the American Way has been defeated because Trump is off Twitter.

The sky has not fallen.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#804

Post by slg »

nicoburns wrote: post #793
slg wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we instead built long term competence within public institutions, including competitive remuneration and career development like training programmes, there wouldn't be a need to have a door between the private and public sector quite as much in the first place... That sounds great in theory, but the problem is that many of these leadership roles if not elected directly are nominated by the president and therefor…

> That sounds great in theory, but the problem is that many of these leadership roles if not elected directly are nominated by the president and therefore they are political in nature and those politics can flow down through the organization. That could be changed though. It's not how it works here in the UK. The ministers in charge of departments are political appointments, but we also have a substantial politically…

The US also has an apolitical civil service infrastructure, just not at the top of these agencies. And it is the leadership that people refer to when they worry about the revolving door. No one cares when some low or midlevel USPS worker goes to work for FedEx, they care when the former FCC chair Kevin Martin is tapped to head up Facebook's US Public Policy.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#805

Post by unethical_ban »

jb775 wrote: post #573
smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

This is possibly the most perfect response I've ever read on HN...hits the nail ON the head. People need to clear their heads, forget politics for a second, and put some more thought into this. I'm literally dumbstruck as to how so many intelligent people aren't able to comprehend the importance of the bigger picture here. And if you try to have a rational & zoomed-out conversation, they insist on zooming-in on small…

The sky isn't falling, freedom of speech is not gone, and America will get along. You are being hysterical.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#806

Post by unethical_ban »

fastball wrote: post #334
joshuamorton wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I'm amazed by how easily people are handwaving away what was a hairs breath from the murder and kidnapping of multiple elected officials, not to mention constitutional crisis/breakdown. > TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" It meets the definition though. There seems to be a lack of willingness to acknowledge an attempted coup as a coup, or a failed insurrection as an insurrec…

Which elected officials were a hairs breath from being murdered, exactly? Seems like mostly just Mike Pence. Who was apparently (if you believe the angry mobs chants) going to be hung by the same people that elected him. Not exactly what I normally think of when I hear "coup" or "violent insurrection". And at the same time, how different is that from people on the other end of the spectrum erecting a guillotine outsi…

The Vice President of the United States was at risk of being murdered by a mob at the capitol, a mob that failed to recognize a free and fair election, a mob encouraged by the sitting president by a host of lies.

And that doesn't have a tinge of "coup" to you?

Can you explain your logic, and how often you hang on /pol/?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#807

Post by mistermann »

ceejayoz wrote: post #384
mistermann wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you articulate a plausible (does not rely on significant speculation or hypotheticals) series of events at the Capitol incident that could have resulted in democracy being legitimately lost in America? I am unable to come up with one.

People were similarly dismissive of the Nazis after the Beer Hall Putsch. Aside: Asking for a hypothetical that doesn’t involve hypotheticals seems… off.

> Aside: Asking for a hypothetical that doesn’t involve hypotheticals seems… off.

Comments like this on a computer programming forum, where one would expect logic (and an understanding of the importance of dependencies) to prevail, also seems "off".

I wonder, what might explain this apparent paradox, and the substantial quantities of it that can be found right here on HN? Does academia have any prior knowledge and study into this general phenomenon? Which domain would we search within to find answers to questions like this?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#808

Post by Gibbon1 »

flippinburgers wrote: post #801
jessedhillon wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an intent to award the presidency to the loser How would they have done that? Nobody would listen to a bunch of hooligans pronouncing orders from the House rostrum. In a coup, someone like a general is waiting to hear the signal to throw in with the coup leaders, providing actual institutional power to the usurpers. There was no institutional power behind these people -- do you think some general at Andrews was wai…

They should be punished to the full extent of the law. In the meantime, people who continuously talk about insurrection seem to be living in a fantasy land. Just as you say, without the military the "insurrection" means nothing.

Not lost on me that the government these people are claiming needs to be overthrown violently because it's tyrannical is treating them with kid gloves compared to most governments. And frankly the relatives of those that stepped over the line and will go to prison should be really happy they live in the US and not another country where people get punished because of mere association. Because that's totally a thing in other countries. But not here.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#809

Post by slg »

nitrogen wrote: post #640
slg wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations aren't the only ones that advertise. Completely eliminating advertising would restrict speech for both corporations and individuals. Maybe I want to create a charity and am looking to raise awareness for a fundraising event I am having. Maybe my dog ran away and I want to get the word out about a monetary reward I am offering for helping to find them. Maybe I am a touring comedian and I want to advertise…

In all of those cases you can just say what you want to say, you don't need to pay for special treatment to put your message in front of an unwilling audience. Restricting advertising isn't restricting speech, it's restricting the ability to pay for special treatment for your own speech.

> Restricting advertising isn't restricting speech, it's restricting the ability to pay for special treatment for your own speech.

That isn't the way it works in the US. There are some restrictions on advertising, but is fundamentally protected speech in the US and therefore can't be banned outright.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#810

Post by medntech »

mplewis wrote: post #742
ddxxdd wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president's full speech before the protest is here: https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-tr... Can you point to a place where he specifically encouraged trespassing or violence in a way that is more egregious than the ways in which various Congresspeople encouraged violence in Kenosha or Minneapolis?

You sure love to move the goalposts.

Can you explain your comment more? It isn't adding to the conversation.
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