Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#731

Post by erichocean » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 3:59 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #714

erichocean wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is decentralized. No central authority told Amazon to drop Parler; Amazon decided on their own. Actually, Amazon didn't decide on their own—which is why none of us are surprised by their "decision". It was made for them, somewhere else. But where? By who? How? You'd think on a site supposedly interested in computer science that people would be aware that distributed consensus is a thing. You don't need a lit…

So your theory is that the U.S. is a distributed consensus system but for some reason the company of Amazon.com, Inc. does not participate as a node?

Let me put it this way: I can give Amazon zero attention and still know what they are going to do, simply by paying attention elsewhere.

Can you? I suspect you could too. We all can, none of this is a secret.

So…is Amazon a node in the political decision making apparatus if you can ignore them entirely and still predict their behavior? I would argue that is strong evidence Amazon is not a decision node when it comes to political decision making, they are a follower node. I would argue that all mainstream US businesses are follower nodes.

Non-political business questions? Sure. I agree US businesses like Amazon are mostly free to act independently. Shutting down Parler, though, was a political decision. An expression of power. In that realm, Amazon was not the one in charge.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#732

Post by mcguire » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 3:59 AM UTC

eznzt wrote: post #275

mcguire wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria…

She said Muhammad was a pederast, which is correct, according to the Quran.

Out of curiosity, what do she plan to do with that information? Why did she say it?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#733

Post by mplewis » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

No, it shows the exceptional power of the US Government to impose consequences on people who make it easy for other people to organize a rebellion.

What is with these baby logic takes hitting the front page over the last few weeks?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#734

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:01 AM UTC

alsetmusic wrote: post #519

smsm42 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> smeared feces, stole laptops > absolutely an insurrection attempt. You must have a really low bar for "insurrection". If stealing a laptop is "insurrection", by that bar looting a Target - which we witnessed the whole 2020 - would be a Galactic War or something.

> by that bar looting a Target - which we witnessed the whole 2020 You’re exaggerating and it’s deliberate, which revels the intent of your argument is dishonest. Well-documented events in the summer of 2020 kicked off unrest. There was no mass-looting before that.

> Well-documented events

Was is it? Did George Floyd have a lethal amount of fentanyl in his system at time of death? Did the medical examiner not mention any damage to Floyd’s neck? Did the video show Floyd asking to be put on ground after resisting getting in the vehicle like the police asked? Did Keith Ellison do everything he could to keep the video of the arrest from coming out? Was Breanna Taylor‘s name on the warrant at her active address? And despite it being authorized to be a no-knock rate, did the police announce themselves? Did CNN use the literal chevron “fiery but mostly peaceful protests“?

“Well documented” is a very misleading way to describe this summer’s violent unrest.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#735

Post by maximente » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:01 AM UTC

heimatau wrote: post #284

anonymousDan wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, lies and propaganda only have to win once.

> only have to win once. I disagree. If you notice with American politics both sides believe in strong dogmas. There is no middle ground. They both have made their beds and they will lay in it. Corporate Dems (control the Democratic Party) and the MAGA (control the GOP) have their own ecochambers. MSNBC, CNN, etc indoctrinate the Dems. Talk radio for the GOP. The two cults will continue to clash. I wonder if the peop…

having two strong parties seems like an inevitable artifact of first past the post voting (lesser of two evils thinking, "wasted" votes, etc.), and unless "the people" can constitutionally get something like ranked choice voting done federally, i'm not sure what the way forward is. any thoughts?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#736

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #650

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I've reconciled my newfound disinterest in the principle of freedom of expression like this: Lies and threats are already illegal if you lie about a person who has the power and standing to use the court system to enforce that. If harmfully you lie in the legal system, it's perjury or filing a false report. If you lie to trick somebody into giving you money (and they can show damages and standing), it's fraud or fals…

> BLM and Antifa activists aren't even members of a real organization

Aren’t there “real” BLM organizations? Aren’t there “real” antifa groups?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#737

Post by jariel » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #645

jariel wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer the question: 'Who would be President on Jan 20?' - if the vote to approve the electoral results on Jan 6th were not completed - or - if the results provided by the states were 'rejected' by a congressional vote. ? Bonus points if you can tell us how the 20th Amendment clarifies that for us. Also, irrespective of what the legal outcome might be, what would most US citizens actually believe? Would the losing fa…

> Who would be President on Jan 20?' - if the vote to approve the electoral results on Jan 6th were not completed [...] Bonus points if you can tell us how the 20th Amendment clarifies that for us. Nancy Pelosi. Amendment XX: “The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January [...] If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, o…

"If a President shall not have been chosen before ..."

"If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify ...”

So Biden will not have been 'chosen' or did not 'qualify' ?

If the Jan 6 vote did not happen or if the results were not approved - Joe Biden was still unambiguously 'chosen' by in a free and fair election by all accounts?

Would the factual legitimacy of his election result in SCOTUS validating his claim to the Presidency?

Can the voting procedure (Act of 1887) [1] meaningfully deny the Biden his ascension to President?

VP Pence himself (a lawyer) indicated that he did not have the authority to stop the process.

It seems pretty ambiguous, and that legal scholars would be all over the place with this, no?

But my question was rhetorical - to illustrate that there's a wall of legal ambiguity in that situation, enough to enable considerable populist rancour to take hold, whereupon the winner may not have enough political momentum to actually take power, irrespective of what some entity like SCOTUS says.

Would Democrats even remotely accept anything other that Biden as President?

Why would they ever submit to 'Pelosi' as being President - which would be an admission of defeat, or even or possibly another election?

If the 'election was rigged' - doesn't that invalidate the entire Congress as well? Including Pelosi? And all the Senators?

If a free and fair election were already held in November, and it was overturned for political reasons, what would be the point of having another one, if the results can be ignored on the basis of populism?

It would be total chaos.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#738

Post by heimatau » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

maximente wrote: post #735

heimatau wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only have to win once. I disagree. If you notice with American politics both sides believe in strong dogmas. There is no middle ground. They both have made their beds and they will lay in it. Corporate Dems (control the Democratic Party) and the MAGA (control the GOP) have their own ecochambers. MSNBC, CNN, etc indoctrinate the Dems. Talk radio for the GOP. The two cults will continue to clash. I wonder if the peop…

having two strong parties seems like an inevitable artifact of first past the post voting (lesser of two evils thinking, "wasted" votes, etc.), and unless "the people" can constitutionally get something like ranked choice voting done federally, i'm not sure what the way forward is. any thoughts?

> any thoughts?

I'm an independent. I like some of the ideas of the Right that they believe that States are governments to experiment with. I'd suggest FPTP and other solutions to just attempt to do this locally and in a State or two. It will get traction, if it's worth it to the governed population. That's my suggestion, start small.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#739

Post by tw04 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #703

tw04 wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you realize that numerous times throughout history people have successfully killed the actual president and it didn't end democracy? How many times in the history of the US, has the president asked his supporters to bring violence against his political opponents? >What these people did was a serious crime and it should absolutely be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but no it was never going to destroy th…

> the president asked his supporters to bring violence against his political opponents This did not happen. Trump asked his supporters to march on the capitol, and then when shit got out of hand, he asked them to go home. Anything else regarding his words is a "reading between the lines" that's going to involve a lot of loaded, partisan-biased, and worst of all unfalsifiable claims.

This did happen, repeatedly, throughout his presidency. There's video evidence, it isn't difficult to find.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-incitement-vi...

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#740

Post by sebmellen » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

vharuck wrote: post #583

imgabe wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some members of the mob were actively looking to kill the people who were 2nd and 3rd in line for the presidency. Let's not pretend that there was zero danger to democracy. Do you realize that numerous times throughout history people have successfully killed the actual president and it didn't end democracy? What these people did was a serious crime and it should absolutely be prosecuted to the full extent of the la…

>Do you realize that numerous times throughout history people have successfully killed the actual president and it didn't end democracy? I'm no historian, so was there ever a time the killing was instigated by a sitting politician who then was not punished? (Yes, the Senate has yet to decide, but chances are they won't vote for removal or banning from office). Because politicians trying to have their political oppone…

With respect, it's clear you're no historian.

Don't forget that Alexander Hamilton was fatally shot in a duel with then Vice President Aaron Burr in 1804 [0].

> Few affairs of honor actually resulted in deaths, and the nation was outraged by the killing of a man as eminent as Alexander Hamilton. Charged with murder, Burr, still vice president, returned to Washington, D.C., where he finished his term immune from prosecution.

[0]: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/burr-slays-hamil...