Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#591

Post by ineptech » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #372

joshuamorton wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I'm amazed by how easily people are handwaving away what was a hairs breath from the murder and kidnapping of multiple elected officials, not to mention constitutional crisis/breakdown. > TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" It meets the definition though. There seems to be a lack of willingness to acknowledge an attempted coup as a coup, or a failed insurrection as an insurrec…

Nobody was going to kidnap and murder anyone. And there wasn't constitutional breakdown - nothing broke down. The electoral college was delayed by several hours. That's it. Surely it's a huge egg on the face of security apparatus to let that happen, but pretending it somehow broken the constitutional government is nonsense. > There seems to be a lack of willingness to acknowledge an attempted coup as a coup Because t…

Why is this "insurrection" vs "hooliganism" distinction important to the larger point about free speech? Is there some rule that AWS can/should kick people off its service for one but not the other?

It seems like you just disagree with the majority opinion, and are describing the people who hold it as "giving up on their ideals" because they don't share yours.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#592

Post by gfodor » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #580

gfodor wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first paragraph and second paragraph cannot both be true at the same time. Trump never called for people to storm the capitol. He did, however, show a disasterous level of negligence that arguably was criminal by not taking steps to prevent it, since it was obviously being planned. If I’m wrong, I will happily retract my claim if you can provide a quote telling his supporters to storm the capitol, not march to t…

> Trump never called for people to storm the capitol. Did he do so literally and overtly, no. Was his call to march to the Capitol and give courage to members allied with his cause and prevent a failure of courage taken that way, and intended to be? Certainly, quite a number of the people who engaged in the riot claimed to do so at his direction, and “will no one rid me of this troublesome priest” style direction fro…

Sure, but that wasn’t the claim. The claim is falsifiable. Yours isnt, but may be true.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#593

Post by ganoushoreilly » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #582

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don't see that dozens of deaths, 7+ Billion in damage, the attempts to overthrow elected officials as well as security institutions such as police departments in the same light? You're selectively choosing a wendy's to try and draw away from the same exact actions. Guillotines have been present at multiple protests the past year. Breaking of windows of federal, state, and public buildings. Large amounts of…

Congress was sacked while the legislators were in session with the VP...

Sure, and it's fucking stupid they didn't have appropriate security given the nature of the day. The insurrection didn't start on that day. If the label is being applied, it started when police were assaulted, innocents were maimed and murdered, mass scale breakdowns of security and control were in play, and collectives attempted things as extraneous as declaring parts of the United States an Autonomous zone, a clear act of aggression/sedition.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#594

Post by nitrogen » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

heimatau wrote: post #284

anonymousDan wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, lies and propaganda only have to win once.

> only have to win once. I disagree. If you notice with American politics both sides believe in strong dogmas. There is no middle ground. They both have made their beds and they will lay in it. Corporate Dems (control the Democratic Party) and the MAGA (control the GOP) have their own ecochambers. MSNBC, CNN, etc indoctrinate the Dems. Talk radio for the GOP. The two cults will continue to clash. I wonder if the peop…

I wonder if the people will wake up.

The "wake up" approach doesn't seem to be working, but we do need some way of reforming our society around the idea of the mighty middle that is not represented by the extremes.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#595

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #505

enraged_camel wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the argument you're trying to make?

I’m trying to figure out if anyone actually want to heal societal schisms? And the measure of that is what folks are willing to compromise on?

How about that one side stops peddling conspiracy theories and following every idiot that promises them what they want to hear in terms of gun rights, abortion and immigration.

Compromise = fact based middle ground between reasonable people. When one side consistently treats politics like winner-takes-all and lies out of their asses to get to power and to stay in power then the burden to compromise would be on them.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#596

Post by legostormtroopr » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

Layke1123 wrote: post #293

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Maybe the simple solution you are looking for is that lies should not be considered free speech in the same way that false advertising and fraud is considered illegal in the land of the first amendment. Food for thought.

What is a lie though? And how do you legislate that people speak the truth.

Besides - everyone talks about speaking "their truth", not "the truth".

Trump got in trouble for saying "The election was stolen", but what if he said "I feel like the election was stolen". Its not a lie, he might feel like that.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#597

Post by rbancroft » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #395

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

> The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Anyone who has studied American history knows that there's been a fairly recent revisionist movement to convince everyone that our republic is actually a democracy. The truth is that this country has always been a republic. The founders of our government hated tyrannical democracy. Hamilton: "It has been observed by an honorable gentleman, that a pure democracy…

I am sorry to have to be the one to say this but you are making a pointless semantic argument. Nobody is saying the USA is not a republic, it's a democratic republic.

This must be some kind of political talking point because I have heard it over and over for years, but it does nothing to convince anyone of your arguments and you would be better served to argue based on policy or ideology rather than this semantic distinction which is not even correct to begin with.

For what it's worth I don't disagree with your substantive points.

All the best,

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#598

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:22 AM UTC

emphatizer2000 wrote: post #495

Lazare wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with almost everything you say except... > a bunch of talking heads on TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" (nothing of the sort happened of course) It didn't succeed, and in retrospect, it didn't look very effective. Many (but by no means all) of the participants were clowns. However, it was absolutely an attempt. People died in an attempt to storm a seat of government and install a diff…

"attempt to install a different regime" How can anybody believe such nonsense? Sorry, but simply taking over the capitol doesn't automatically make you the ruler of a new regime. It's not a video game were you get made king when you conquer the target zone.

> How can anybody believe such nonsense?

Because the intelligentsia aligned with the “retain power for Trump at all costs” faction represetned in the insurrection announced various mechanisms by which that ccould be done (which may be Constitutionally dubious, but that’s irrelevant here), because the President openly endorsed those theories, and because the actions the members of the mob openly stated they wanted to take were consistent with enabling those routes to be taken by removing actors who were impeding them, notably the VP.

To believe it was an attempt doesn't mean that you must believe it was likely to succeed, only that there is sufficient reason to believe that that's what the actors involved wanted to have happen. And there's plenty of reason to believe that they did want to impose a different leadership than the actual election winner, and that they had specific reason to believe that attacking the capitol when they did would present a means to achieve that objective.

> Sorry, but simply taking over the capitol doesn’t automatically make you the ruler of a new regime.

Nor was that the plan, but the escape of the VP and members caused the plan to fail.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#599

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:25 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #592

dragonwriter wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump never called for people to storm the capitol. Did he do so literally and overtly, no. Was his call to march to the Capitol and give courage to members allied with his cause and prevent a failure of courage taken that way, and intended to be? Certainly, quite a number of the people who engaged in the riot claimed to do so at his direction, and “will no one rid me of this troublesome priest” style direction fro…

Sure, but that wasn’t the claim. The claim is falsifiable. Yours isnt, but may be true.

> Sure, but that wasn’t the claim.

The claim was that he called on people to storm the capitol. Doing so with coded language where his audience would understand his true meaning while he could maintain superficial deniability if the uprising failed would still be such a call.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#600

Post by wslack » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:25 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #576

denkmoon wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for a third party that provides govt infra, we/my org see it as a license to print money and an opportunity to lock govt in. Really perverse incentives.

> we/my org see it as a license to print money and an opportunity to lock govt in. Really perverse incentives. That's so fucking wrong, but I bet the government continually falls for this trap.

It's already in the trap. Very hard to justify the $$$$ to be platform neutral when sales reps are so good at pushing the savings of jumping in fully with one SaaS.