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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#421

Post by selimthegrim »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #380
trident5000 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of rednecks who broke into a building after a protest event ended, stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside, and left hours after being told to do so with no shots fired at security. Id hardly call that much of an insurrection attempt. "but they had zip ties" there has never been a gov overthrow fought by some guy who brought zip ties.

Did the velvet ropes extend all the way into the senate chamber? Or up the steps where that cop led the rioters? Your comment is so stupid I almost can’t believe I’m responding to it, but I fear that if you don’t get any refutation you’ll continue to believe the nonsense you wrote down.

They did get messed up as the day went on

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#422

Post by noncoml »

apple_innocent wrote: post #337

"In 2010, DNA sequencing company Complete Genomics said that "an interruption of services by Amazon Web Services, on whom we rely to deliver finished genomic data to our customers, would result in our customers not receiving their data on time." Gaming company Zynga warned about how its AWS foundation could quickly vanish when it filed the prospectus for its initial public offering in 2011. "AWS may terminate the agr…

My suggestion that governments shouldn't rely on third-parties for their infra, didn't go down well with HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25639520

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#423

Post by geofft »

nickysielicki wrote: post #395
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

> The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Anyone who has studied American history knows that there's been a fairly recent revisionist movement to convince everyone that our republic is actually a democracy. The truth is that this country has always been a republic. The founders of our government hated tyrannical democracy. Hamilton: "It has been observed by an honorable gentleman, that a pure democracy…

I agree with this analysis (and I support the Democrats in all those things you mentioned).

What happened was not just increased talk of our government being a democracy - it was also that our republican form of government, over the course of the years, actually made itself a democracy, step by step, from the Twelfth Amendment to the Seventeenth Amendment to the various judicial rulings of the 1960s that recognized the "one person, one vote" standard, among many other steps.

The difficulty with the "We're not a democracy, we're a republic" argument is the same difficulty with monarchists today who have to deal with the fact that their beloved legitimate rulers abdicated or otherwise ceded power legitimately. We certainly were not a democracy in 1789, given the number of people disenfranchised, but we chose to become one, which is an entirely intra-vires thing for a republican government to do.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#424

Post by neartheplain »

ars wrote: post #294
rubyist5eva wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely ridiculous. Unless you are credibly telling people to actually go and commit violence, it is no such thing.

Trump did not "credibly tell[] people to actually go and commit violence". He "set the stage" as it were, and people did what they did. It's really not that different from what the women did: She got people upset about Islam.

Directly after Rudy told the crowd “let’s have trial by combat!”, the President told his followers to march on the capitol. Then he watched them lay siege to the capitol on TV for hours before half-heartedly telling them to go home. To me, that’s credible incitement to violence.

Making factual statements about Islam is not incitement to violence. The woman did not want or ask those who dislike her remarks to get violent or lose self-control.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#425

Post by selimthegrim »

rayiner wrote: post #419
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I think you're misidentifying the problem as being about modern technology for speech. It's not. Trump could have done the same exact thing in the day of fireside chats. A lot of what drove Trump's rise isn't Parler (which didn't even exist in 2018) but talk radio. The problem is that American is a diverse county of 330 million people who hate each other, and we're too idealistic to engage in the sort of social frict…

So I guess what's going on in Assam with NRC is just sauce for the gander to you?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#426

Post by philipkglass »

haberman wrote: post #303
myWindoonn wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what end are you arguing? Do you honestly think that the 6th Amendment will be repealed, or that strict scrutiny will suddenly not be applied when appropriate? (I suspect that this entire comment thread was started in order to try to pull a rhetorical gotcha, and you didn't actually expect somebody to respond to your words as written, but hopefully you've learned some constitutional law on this beautiful sunny MLK…

How is it a "rhetorical gotcha" to ask what it would look like to consistently apply a proposed principle or law? Equal protection under the law is also a constitutional principle (I knew that one already, thanks), but it seems in short supply in much of modern thinking and advocacy. The first question somebody should ask when advocating some kind of measure aimed at their adversaries is: what would it look like if t…

They ACLU haven't left their liberal principles by the wayside. They warned about the power of social media companies as recently as January 8, after the events at the Capitol.

https://www.newsweek.com/aclu-counsel-warns-unchecked-power-...

"ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook After Trump Suspension"

"For months, President Trump has been using social media platforms to seed doubt about the results of the election and to undermine the will of voters. We understand the desire to permanently suspend him now, but it should concern everyone when companies like Facebook and Twitter wield the unchecked power to remove people from platforms that have become indispensable for the speech of billions – especially when political realities make those decisions easier," the statement read.

"President Trump can turn his press team or Fox News to communicate with the public, but others – like many Black, Brown, and LGTBQ activists who have been censored by social media companies – will not have that luxury. It is our hope that these companies will apply their rules transparently to everyone."

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#427

Post by babygoat »

trident5000 wrote: post #361
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

A bunch of rednecks who broke into a building after a protest event ended, stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside, and left hours after being told to do so with no shots fired at security. Id hardly call that much of an insurrection attempt. "but they had zip ties" there has never been a gov overthrow fought by some guy who brought zip ties.

They also had guns, but I notice you glossed right over that.

Also what do you think the guy brought zip ties for? There had never been an airplane hijacked by some guy with a box cutter until it actually happened.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#428

Post by tibbydudeza »

robin21 wrote: post #398
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

Did he say storm the capital?

The word is incitement.

First Rudy with his trial by combat nonsense and then Trump with his "we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue and we're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give -".

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#429

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

[deleted]

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#430

Post by rayiner »

enraged_camel wrote: post #391
mistermann wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you articulate a plausible (does not rely on significant speculation or hypotheticals) series of events at the Capitol incident that could have resulted in democracy being legitimately lost in America? I am unable to come up with one.

This is an obviously impossible burden to load on someone, and I think you know that. If democracy is legitimately lost in America, it will happen via a series of events that we today cannot conceive of. It is more useful to think events like the Capitol incident as causing long-lasting damage to democracy, and there is a non-negligible possibility that societal schisms will widen, as opposed to heal. What that will…

> t is more useful to think events like the Capitol incident as causing long-lasting damage to democracy, and there is a non-negligible possibility that societal schisms will widen, as opposed to heal. What that will look like in the future is anybody's guess.

What are you willing to give up politically to heal societal schisms?

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