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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#361

Post by trident5000 »

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

A bunch of rednecks who broke into a building after a protest event ended, stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside, and left hours after being told to do so with no shots fired at security. Id hardly call that much of an insurrection attempt. "but they had zip ties" there has never been a gov overthrow fought by some guy who brought zip ties.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#362

Post by [deleted] »

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

[deleted]

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#363

Post by ogre_codes »

foolinaround wrote: post #316
ogre_codes wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. Everything Amazon did was within the terms of their contract. Amazon could have terminated the agreement sooner. Since Amazon waited until after it was abundantly clear that harmful content was being posted on Parler, its going to be quite difficult for Parler to find much sympathy in any court.

Just to play the Devil's advocate here: Now, Amazon had given notice to Parler that they want some moderation that is automated... What are the specs for that? What would satisfy Amazon? Can it be delivered within that timeframe setting aside whatever else is going on? These are real concerns for a company going forward. I guess many do not state because of the political ramifications of this particular case, but it…

> Now, Amazon had given notice to Parler that they want some moderation that is automated... What are the specs for that? What would satisfy Amazon? Can it be delivered within that timeframe setting aside whatever else is going on?

What makes you think Parler is interested in complying with the terms of the contract at all?

The only benefit of Parler over Twitter or Facebook is the fact that you can say things which will get you banned on the bigger platforms. If Parler implements moderation which will comply with Amazon's terms of service, why would anyone use Parler at all?

> These are real concerns for a company going forward. I guess many do not state because of the political ramifications of this particular case, but it will be discussed in board rooms.

Why? If you are a startup for a recipe making app, are you going to be worried about a company who got booted from a service for allowing users to discuss kidnapping, rape, and murder openly?

If I'm a business, it's a simple question. Can we operate on AWS/ Azure/ Apple's App Store/ etc and meet their terms of service. There is a huge world of business ideas that don't need to violate the fairly broad terms in Amazon's TOS.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#364

Post by gthaman »

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

Don't be flippant - both sides of the political spectrum work together under the facade of opposing sides. Now Trump just pulled a pied piper and led these people into the capital with which both sides will now try to use this manufactured situation to consolidate power.

How is it that everyone here is all about game theory except when it matters ? And yes, America is in distress.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#365

Post by joshuamorton »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #269
NationalPark wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your position is genuinely that you believe website operators should be mandated by law to host content they do not want to host except when that content has been specifically determined to be illegal, then we simply disagree on that point - I think that would make the world a worse place and I prefer the world where that rule is not in effect. But if you believe in allowing the tiniest ounce of operator discretio…

> " If your position is genuinely that you believe website operators should be mandated by law to host content they do not want to host except when that content has been specifically determined to be illegal, then we simply disagree on that point. " That's another meme I see repeated a lot. If we go back before 1950, the same argument you are making was used justify businesses refusing to provide service to women, mi…

Political affiliation being a protected class doesn't help your case. In fact, it already is a protected class in CA. But that doesn't matter, because parler doesn't and didn't claim to be republican, and wasn't removed for hosting republican points of view.

The protected class argument doesn't make sense until Mitch mcconnell and Mike pence are being deplatformed. And they aren't, because this has nothing to do with political affiliation and never did. That's just a mask the bad actors wear.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#366

Post by spr3zi »

trident5000 wrote: post #361
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

A bunch of rednecks who broke into a building after a protest event ended, stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside, and left hours after being told to do so with no shots fired at security. Id hardly call that much of an insurrection attempt. "but they had zip ties" there has never been a gov overthrow fought by some guy who brought zip ties.

A poor execution does not make it less seditious. The goal was to undermine or intimidate a democratic process entwined with the leadership of our nation. I would argue that's pretty clearly insurrection.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#367

Post by pyromine »

trident5000 wrote: post #361
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

A bunch of rednecks who broke into a building after a protest event ended, stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside, and left hours after being told to do so with no shots fired at security. Id hardly call that much of an insurrection attempt. "but they had zip ties" there has never been a gov overthrow fought by some guy who brought zip ties.

"stayed between the red velvet ropes once inside" This is a lie.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#368

Post by myrryr »

Solvitieg wrote: post #229
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I think everyone would benefit if we stopped using the phrase "free speech" because it consistently derails the conversation into a 1st amendment vs private companies argument. Which is a very tired argument at this point. A better word for what's happening is "censorship" and society's willingness to allow organizations to censor their customers.

I think the real problem isn't around free speech, but the lack of consequences around falsehoods.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#369

Post by torben-friis »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

One of the things that was burned into my mind during my college years (math) was the notion that instinct and intuitiveness is only pattern recognition, and you should ignore it when you're on uncharted territory. Without past experiences to tune it, intuition is useless.

We're in uncharted territory now. Our ideals and principles of speech and communication weren't created in times when you could reach millions from your home, or manufacture opinion, or create alternative narratives. So those principles don't necessarily apply to current times.

Insisting in the old views will get us the same result as those battles where soldiers would march following the old ways in perfect classical formation against the first automatic weapons. And I don't want to be shredded.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#370

Post by lliamander »

ogre_codes wrote: post #295
lliamander wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon gave them 7 weeks of advance notice that their content was in violation of their agreement. Not the same thing as giving them notice of intent to terminate the contract. If Amazon said "some of your content is in violation, but let's work together to improve your moderation, you have nothing to worry about" that does not give Amazon the right to turn around and terminate them after only 24 hours notice.

Parler was in breech. Amazon could have stopped providing service at any point where Parler was knowingly hosting content that violated their contract. The fact that they continued providing service was a curtesy, not an obligation. For most smaller/ non connected entities they'd have been dropped much much sooner, and likely without notice.

I believe these assertions are contested by Parler. It will be very interesting to see how the case goes.
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