Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#401

Post by pdubroy » Tue, May 24, 2011, 4:56 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #373

pdubroy wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that really proves your point. You've made about 2.8% annually over 13 years, not including your borrowing cost, agent fees, etc. On the other hand, the S&P 500 returned 8.25% annually between 1993-2006. Say you put 10% down ($8500) and spend $800/year total on taxes, repairs, etc. (probably low). If you'd invested in an index fund, you'd have made $42,000.

If you'd invested in an index fund, you'd have made $42,000. And also likely have moved several times at an average cost of around $2000 per move, seen rent increases above what his current mortgage is and so on. The odds are poor that all other things would have remained equal. I owned a house at one time. I benefited by about $2000/year over the time I owned it. When I refinanced, I got my escrow back and had no mo…

Great, then it worked out for you. I'm not saying there are no advantages to owning a house, but it's not a magical investment vehicle. Many people seem to just compare the purchase price to the sale price and think, "Wow, what a gain!" without considering all the other costs, or as what they could have made with another investment over the same period.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#402

Post by Ras_ » Tue, May 24, 2011, 5:30 PM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #197

mikeleeorg wrote: post #160

Out of curiosity, anyone know if sabbaticals common in Europe? A software developer I know worked tirelessly for 4 years at a large corporation before burning out. He may have taken a week off here & there, but was always answering his emails. He finally requested a sabbatical. Those are rare and very tough to get, but his manager fought for him and off he went. He returned refreshed, though he left the job shortly t…

AFAIK sabbatical are quasi exclusive to US and Canada. I never knew anyone in Europe going for a sabbatical.

In Finland we have a practice called vuorotteluvapaa (work sharing). It is commonplace for people nearing middle age. For example my mother used vuorotteluvapaa to do deaconess studies to complement her nursing degree. Work sharing requires that your employer hires someone who is registered as unemployed to fill in "your shoes".

To get work share you need to have worked at least 10 years of which at least 13 months to your current employer. You can work share for a minimum of 90 days and maximum of 359 days. Compensation is 70-80% of what your unemployment benefit (25.74€ base per day + 45% of your normal day's earnings) would be.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#403

Post by camiller » Tue, May 24, 2011, 5:41 PM UTC

pdubroy wrote: post #401

Mz wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd invested in an index fund, you'd have made $42,000. And also likely have moved several times at an average cost of around $2000 per move, seen rent increases above what his current mortgage is and so on. The odds are poor that all other things would have remained equal. I owned a house at one time. I benefited by about $2000/year over the time I owned it. When I refinanced, I got my escrow back and had no mo…

Great, then it worked out for you. I'm not saying there are no advantages to owning a house, but it's not a magical investment vehicle. Many people seem to just compare the purchase price to the sale price and think, "Wow, what a gain!" without considering all the other costs, or as what they could have made with another investment over the same period.

I never said it was an superior investment vehicle vis-a-vis investing in the market. Compared to renting is a different story.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#404

Post by dmm » Tue, May 24, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #354

dmm wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but buying a house now is betting that that tax deduction is going to exist for the next 20 years. The financial situation of the US is insane. The next 20 years aren't going to look anything like the last 40.

I said that twenty years ago as a justification for not bothering with paying into a retirement account. This turned out to be a bad bet.

Thanks for the perspective. It's easy to get caught up in events and not realize this has been believed for many years.

What did you do with the money you would have saved?

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#405

Post by randallsquared » Tue, May 24, 2011, 7:44 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #404

randallsquared wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said that twenty years ago as a justification for not bothering with paying into a retirement account. This turned out to be a bad bet.

Thanks for the perspective. It's easy to get caught up in events and not realize this has been believed for many years. What did you do with the money you would have saved?

I spent it entirely on things I now do not have. Going out to eat, buying books and CDs, etc. There were times I genuinely could not have afforded to save five or ten percent of what I was making, but lots of times I could have.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#406

Post by com » Tue, May 24, 2011, 10:12 PM UTC

thomasgerbe wrote: post #242

david927 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not idealizing: European take home less pay and pay more in taxes -- but get huge social benefits. If you're honestly trying to argue an equivalence in US and Europe in terms of such benefits, you're crazy. Europe is a big word as each country varies. That said... In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot But, from the studies I've seen, Europeans on average spend about h…

"No, they simply have public transit -- it's not great by any means. You often have to supplement with taxi in both places." Citation needed. 99.9% of the time I was lived in NY, I used public transit instead of taxis. London and France? Underground stops running close to one and so anytime I tried staying out late I needed to walk, take a night bus, or hail a cab (which is near impossible on a Friday night).

In London, the night bus route I tend to use (to Walthamstow from central London) runs at a slightly lower frequency overnight - just once every ten minutes. It's about as fast as the tube because of the more limited traffic.

And you use the same old Oyster card as during the day. I assume it's just as cheap - 80p or a pound per ride? Cheap enough that I don't even keep track.

I agree with the GP - the overnight services outside of limited routes in NYC aren't flash, and most of the rest of the US metro areas are appalling.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#407

Post by hmottestad » Wed, May 25, 2011, 12:03 AM UTC

camiller wrote: post #396

hmottestad wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about if you were sick and your doctor said you had to stay home? In Norway we can take up to 3 consecutive days off due to illness 4 times during 12 months. If you work in an extra exposed environment (kindergarten, old people's home) you have more days. If you need more than that, you have to see a doctor. The doctor can give you up to 12 months of leave. During this period the state refunds your employer for…

In that instance I pay for long term disability insurance. If I have to be off for medical reasons for more time than my sick days, I get paid by LTD instead of employer.

Past the first 12 months the state (Norway) will start paying you equivalently to your pension. So as a student I too have private long term disability insurance, mostly to cover my student loans, in case I for instance get my fingers cut off and can't do much with a computer anymore.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#408

Post by GFischer » Wed, May 25, 2011, 4:09 AM UTC

krolley wrote: post #390

wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

I don't know where people are getting the idea that Europe pays software developers $3000-$4000 per month. Maybe in eastern Europe, but in Switzerland, you can expect double that amount.. after tax.

Well, from European software developers actually :) .

I guess it depends on your definition of software developer, but my sister's Austrian boyfriend (a software engineer) makes less than U$ 4.000, and so do some of my Magic:the Gathering acquaintances.

Granted, they're in their 20s and will probably command higher wages later on (I hope :) ), but I do know of a guy in his 40s making less than that in Vienna as well (working for IBM)

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#409

Post by yardie » Wed, May 25, 2011, 10:18 AM UTC

Goladus wrote: post #391

yardie wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the French head south to the riviera, or north to brittany, basically any place with a beach nearby. The roads are packed so you'll usually see a traffic report with them interviewing people taking a picnic on the side of the road, complete with wine and cheese of course. Also, its part of the draw. When there is a known crowd coming most of the hotels and restaurants pull out all the stops: foods, drinks, li…

That sounds like a large-scale version of what happens every summer weekend in New England as Boston and its suburbs head to the cape.

Yes, but instead of a summer weekend its the entire month of august and parts of July. From my experience, Paris gets completely evacuated except for the tourists and tourism related jobs.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#410

Post by afterburner » Wed, May 25, 2011, 6:09 PM UTC

dhughes wrote: post #317

afterburner wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually several sources show Canada is better than the US, although how much better depends on the source. This one below paints the rosiest picture I've seen for Canada, I've seen others show as few as 19 (for average) while show 14 for the US (same as below): http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922052.html

That seems bizarre, any job I've ever had or anyone I know get two weeks vacation. Anyone you ask wouldn't get any more than two weeks and self-employed seasonal workers such as farmers and fishermen may not get any vacation.

In my experience in the infrastructure/defense/aerospace fields, you get 2 weeks to start, but 3 weeks after 2 years, plus 1 week company shutdown in December. Plus stat holidays of course (about one week's worth).