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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#251

Post by neartheplain »

mcguire wrote: post #230
eznzt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr... Is this really what you want?

" She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria…

There should be nothing illegal about “attacking” a religion with words, all the moreso if those words are factually accurate.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#252

Post by alexfromapex »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I disagree and here’s why: in a free society you have to convince participants to act in good faith by showing good will towards them. No amount of trying to control someone by censoring them will stop them from pursuing their beliefs. Instead, you need to hear their needs and use the public discourse of opinion to formulate a path forward that benefits all members of the society.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#253

Post by lynndotpy »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

As a side question, how do you feel about spam blockers?

I don't mean this question in bad faith, and I support spam blocking, but spam blocking seems incompatible with a free-speech absolutist position.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#254

Post by cm2187 »

lliamander wrote: post #226
foolinaround wrote: post #217

There is now a new risk that needs to be mitigated by the business, that of its business being taken down for any reason at all - subject to the whims of a changing culture, and possibly even outside of the laws of the land one is in. This will hopefully make folks think through the entire supply chain including cloud and SaaS providers. AWS was always like renting an apartment, or even, a fully furnished apartment.…

This threat is already mitigated by service contracts. AWS pretty obviously broke contract here, and will almost certain suffer legal consequences for that. Why they thought they could get away with it is unclear, but their rebuttle to Parler's claims is pretty weak.

But critical infrastructure is built on AWS. I don't understand how any CEO of any large company would be comfortable with the risk of getting the rug pulled underneath all of its critical systems given that this is just what happened. I think the reputational damage is, or at least should, be much greater than any Parler litigation.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#255

Post by gorgoiler »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

The platforms that amplify these kooks are the same ones that amplify our anxiety. I try, somewhat successfully, to ignore both and get on with my life.

If the lunatics ever did come close to truly taking over then we might have something to worry about but even with the constant onslaught of the past four years it feels as if the establishment — what they criticize as the deep state but which is really just the state — has prevailed as it always has done.

Recent civil rights protests are a different but intertwined thread. I hope that we see some progress there in the coming decade.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#256

Post by ogre_codes »

lliamander wrote: post #226
foolinaround wrote: post #217

There is now a new risk that needs to be mitigated by the business, that of its business being taken down for any reason at all - subject to the whims of a changing culture, and possibly even outside of the laws of the land one is in. This will hopefully make folks think through the entire supply chain including cloud and SaaS providers. AWS was always like renting an apartment, or even, a fully furnished apartment.…

This threat is already mitigated by service contracts. AWS pretty obviously broke contract here, and will almost certain suffer legal consequences for that. Why they thought they could get away with it is unclear, but their rebuttle to Parler's claims is pretty weak.

Quite the opposite. Everything Amazon did was within the terms of their contract. Amazon could have terminated the agreement sooner. Since Amazon waited until after it was abundantly clear that harmful content was being posted on Parler, its going to be quite difficult for Parler to find much sympathy in any court.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#257

Post by smsm42 »

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to give up on freedom because of TV picture and a bunch of talking heads on TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" (nothing of the sort happened of course) and it's time to panic now - and poof, all noble ideals fly out of the window. It doesn't take nukes, it doesn't take Russians or Chinese, it doesn't take death and destruction - it takes Facebook, Twitter and CNN. I am still dumbfounded about how easy it was.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#258

Post by erichocean »

neartheplain wrote: post #251
mcguire wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria…

There should be nothing illegal about “attacking” a religion with words, all the moreso if those words are factually accurate.

It's incitement. Donald Trump was just impeached for the same thing.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#259

Post by erichocean »

015a wrote: post #247
mcguire wrote: post #212

Playing the devil's advocate here: is this really "exceptional power"? Before the Internet, fringe, extremist political movements had essentially the same options as every other minor interest group: local groups, physical, mailed newsletters, maybe magazines, booths at whatever kind of group meetings, and maybe news media coverage. All of those options still exist. So the modern state of things hasn't removed anythi…

I agree; but there are a few worrying trends that we need to keep an eye on with respect to this: * IPv4 space. IPv4 addresses are increasingly expensive. In a perfect world we'd just get rid of them, but instead, we live in a world where Amazon owns roughly $3B worth of them. They're critical to serving web content; what happens when centralized corporate mega-powers are the only ones who can afford them, or own the…

> IPv4 addresses are increasingly expensive

They cost about $20 to buy. How is that expensive?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#260

Post by redisman »

thefounder wrote: post #38

Just make sure you dont use proprietary stuff (e.g Google datastore/firebase etc) and at least you have the chance to go the old fashion way(co-location, smaller hosta etc)

Even then let’s say you have 100TB or more of data. How do you get an offline backup of that? Especially if it’s only a few days warning. I guess having some offline storage backup that gets updated often should be a part of the plan
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