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Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

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Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#211

Post by AaronFriel »

simplecto wrote: post #124
AaronFriel wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does any of that have to do with supporting the WebExtension open specification? It sounds like, to me, I can't ship a WebExtension for Safari because I don't own a Mac. Is that right? Does that sound right to you?

Yes it does sound right. Do you ship untested software?

I mean, I guess... since among the things I've shipped are, uhm, WEBSITES, yes?

Because there are more browsers than any person could conceivably have time to rigorously, thoroughly test. Yes, things like Browserstack exist.

But why do I have to test my Web Extension differently from my website. Should Safari start blocking websites whose TLS certificate lacks a "issued-to-a-mac" extension?

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#212

Post by floatingatoll »

langitbiru wrote: post #91
floatingatoll wrote: post #30

The most popular web extensions are those that deprive sites of direct and indirect revenue, which necessarily means they can’t charge for the service or their userbase would revolt and steal their rule sets (which is easy to do for a web extension). Having to pay money for such things goes against the grain of those users, and the sort of breakage that people think is acceptable for content blockers isn’t quite as a…

I develop PredictSalary ( https://predictsalary.com ), a browser extension that can predict the salary range of job opportunities. It's free but one person told me that he didn't mind to pay me if I added support for job opportunities in his country (UK). The extension has 700+ users now. I don't know whether this number can be considered as significant user base or not. Later, I'll add the capability to predict the…

That is extremely cool. But why don’t you support Safari?

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#213

Post by floatingatoll »

asiando wrote: post #83
floatingatoll wrote: post #30

The most popular web extensions are those that deprive sites of direct and indirect revenue, which necessarily means they can’t charge for the service or their userbase would revolt and steal their rule sets (which is easy to do for a web extension). Having to pay money for such things goes against the grain of those users, and the sort of breakage that people think is acceptable for content blockers isn’t quite as a…

Hey check out the App Store, it’s full of paid Safari content-blockers. I begrudgingly bought one on Mac because the alternatives are trash.

Indeed, I referenced two of them in my comment.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#214

Post by floatingatoll »

dannyw wrote: post #55
floatingatoll wrote: post #30

The most popular web extensions are those that deprive sites of direct and indirect revenue, which necessarily means they can’t charge for the service or their userbase would revolt and steal their rule sets (which is easy to do for a web extension). Having to pay money for such things goes against the grain of those users, and the sort of breakage that people think is acceptable for content blockers isn’t quite as a…

Not everything needs to be a business. Not everything needs to make money. Not everything needs to grow 100% year on year. Extension examples: Reddit Enhancement Suite, Firebug, uBlock Origin, YouTube Ultrawide fixer.

If that ‘revenue is not relevant’ logic holds true, then it follows that the $99/year annual fee is not relevant to why developers are not releasing extensions. Which negates the most popular (and unsupported) argument against Apple’s model. But if it’s not that fee, then what is it that keeps people from releasing extensions for Safari?

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#215

Post by floatingatoll »

Glench wrote: post #202
floatingatoll wrote: post #30

The most popular web extensions are those that deprive sites of direct and indirect revenue, which necessarily means they can’t charge for the service or their userbase would revolt and steal their rule sets (which is easy to do for a web extension). Having to pay money for such things goes against the grain of those users, and the sort of breakage that people think is acceptable for content blockers isn’t quite as a…

There are plenty of quality paid extensions: * Closet Tools makes $38k/month: https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/187-jordan-oconnor-of-c... * CSS Scan made over $100k: https://www.indiehackers.com/product/css-scan/100-000-in-rev... * Spider made $10k in two months: https://www.amie-chen.com/blog/making-paid-extension/

Cool. But, Closet Tools and Spider don’t support Safari, and they make so much money that it’s not because of the $99/year fee. Why else wouldn’t they, if not that?

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#216

Post by floatingatoll »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #65
floatingatoll wrote: post #30

The most popular web extensions are those that deprive sites of direct and indirect revenue, which necessarily means they can’t charge for the service or their userbase would revolt and steal their rule sets (which is easy to do for a web extension). Having to pay money for such things goes against the grain of those users, and the sort of breakage that people think is acceptable for content blockers isn’t quite as a…

> Imagine pi-hole charging a monthly subscription or else it allows ads through I absolutely wouldn't mind paying additional 100% on top of my Internet subscription monthly if this could officially get me 100% ad-free, tracking-free, DRM-free and paywall-free web. If only there were easy and efficient means for an Internet provider to distribute part of their revenue to content providers so they wouldn't have to depl…

Sounds like you’re describing the BBC model, where the government funds them to produce high-quality broad-spectrum content without them having to deploy ads and tracking. I approve.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#217

Post by m463 »

lycopodiopsida wrote: post #159
m463 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think capitalism works. That's how apple does it. That said, I was attracted to computers since an early age because it's fun to make them do things. But I think apple's ecosystem takes the MOST EFFORT of any of them to actually do anything. For example, on linux there are probably 100 scripting languages that can do fine-grained automation of just about anything you want to do. With apple.. ugh. It's either apples…

Writing AS is not a pleasant experience, I agree. IMO, it was internally abandoned long time. There was a push to move the automation framework to JS with JSX, but after the initial half-broken release nothing came and as far as I understand, the team was dissolved. Shortcuts on iOS may be the model for future automation on MacOS. This said, one of the biggest reasons I still clamp to macOS is, actually, the state of…

well, that is their business model. Take it away and then sell it back.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#218

Post by langitbiru »

floatingatoll wrote: post #212
langitbiru wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I develop PredictSalary ( https://predictsalary.com ), a browser extension that can predict the salary range of job opportunities. It's free but one person told me that he didn't mind to pay me if I added support for job opportunities in his country (UK). The extension has 700+ users now. I don't know whether this number can be considered as significant user base or not. Later, I'll add the capability to predict the…

That is extremely cool. But why don’t you support Safari?

Hi there. That is in my todo list. Also, I will support Edge.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#220

Post by ivanhoe »

coldtea wrote: post #110
ivanhoe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because such vendors (e.g. Panic, BareBones, Omni, and so on) won't do lowest common denominator apps, they keep up with the platform, they understand it, they hook in to new platform-only capabilities, etc.). What about thousands of small devs/companies who are not Panic or others having contacts inside Apple and a privileged position? Here on HN there's at least one horror story a month about issues someon…

> Here on HN there's at least one horror story a month about issues someone had with Apple With 2 million programmers, a marketplace of 100billion, and millions of apps, "one horror story a month" (i.e. "somebody was annoyed on the internet and posted about it") sounds like a huge success story. And many of these are non-stories, or stories of the kind "Me, one of 1.5000.000 programmers on iOS/macOS stores, had an ap…

> "I tried to make a living with a native desktop app - FOSS or proprietary - for Linux, but nobody seems to care and fewer would pay"

And how is this different for AppStore? More and more abandonware, and more and more cheap/freemium clones and garbage - noise to signal ratio is much lower than on say Linux. From a dev perspective, unlike a decade ago, now there's very little room to make any significant money just by building and selling simple desktop apps as indy dev. Now you need a SaaS, or some freemium upsell scam and a lot more marketing skills, plus Apple takes their share of every possible income channel you have and gives very little in return. That's at least my experience.

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