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The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

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Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#341

Post by omaranto »

BeetleB wrote: post #299
omaranto wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think git is slow on Windows, and magit doesn't make the problem better or worse.

Nope - git is mostly fast on Windows. It's magit that's the problem - or rather how magit does things. It launches several git processes to do basic things like status or commit, and that is fundamentally slow in Windows. See https://magit.vc/manual/magit/Microsoft-Windows-Performance....

So you are saying git is slow on Windows, but only because starting any process is slow on Windows. Interesting. I've heard there is work in progress to have magit use libgit2 instead of running the git executable. That should help.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#342

Post by omaranto »

2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #315
omaranto wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil is rarely mentioned? I guess we hang out in different parts of the internet.

Compared to the uncountable amount of "Emacs vs. Vim" discussions? Yes, absolutely. And when someone talks about getting a vim workflow in emacs they likely only mention a big framework like Spacemacs...

Oh, maybe my brain counts every mention of Spacemacs or Doom as an implicit mention of Evil.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#343

Post by brnt »

submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

Customization is a liability. It it practical to be able to work with any hammer, not just your own. Also practical that you can lend your hammer out when the need arises, without instructing the other on the particulars of your version.

Computers are cattle, software too.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#344

Post by brandonmenc »

stnmtn wrote: post #340
markmark wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a few text editor pros who just weren't aware of what modern ides are capable of, particularly with strongly typed languages. They thought grep, regex and keyboard shortcuts were impressive.

There is something that I think most programmers have, which is that seeing someone type an arcane-looking combination of characters, press enter, and suddenly a variable has been renamed in every file in the directory is more impressive then clicking on UI elements to get to find and replace, then clicking the "execute" button. They both do the same thing, probably take the same amount of type to actually complete,…

imo this is exactly it.

It reminds me of pre-iPhone Japanese mobile phone culture where the more complicated interfaces were prized because users had to master them like a game or a puzzle.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#345

Post by yudlejoza »

himujjal wrote: post #317
yudlejoza wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well after reading your comment, I thought maybe the big win for neovim might be reduced (code-size) complexity. So I checked the code sizes for latest versions of both vim and neovim (from github): - vim is at 900k (717k without po files) - neovim is at 677k (562k without po files) Savings of only 25% of code size is unfortunate. It's even worse if we ignore the po data files (only 22%). I would like to see a fully-…

github.com/rxi/lite-editor

Thanks. Found the correct link: github.com/rxi/lite

- First, it's ~20k ... which I admire in itself, but I doubt it'll have all the functionality of an advanced editor/IDE system.

- Second, I don't know lua, don't have plans to learn lua. I'll take lua a teeny bit more seriously the day I don't have to decide if I need to shell out 22 pounds just to read the latest official documentation of a programming language I'm trying to learn [0]

[0] https://store.feistyduck.com/products/programming-in-lua-fou...

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#346

Post by gkya »

brnt wrote: post #343
submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

Customization is a liability. It it practical to be able to work with any hammer, not just your own. Also practical that you can lend your hammer out when the need arises, without instructing the other on the particulars of your version. Computers are cattle, software too.

I can use almost any editor, ed(1) included, fairly efficiently without any config (well not exactly efficiently with ed).

I also have a 7kLoC init.el, and a couple little packages I've written.

Just because you wouldn't starve eating grain, olives and the occasional cheese shouldn't mean you can't eat a prime cut and have a nice glass of wine with it when you have the chance.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#347

Post by gkya »

the__alchemist wrote: post #77

I'm curious if the userbase of these have tried a Jetbrains IDE (PyCharm, CLion, IntelliJ etc). I've found the Jetbrains IDEs understand the language more thoroughly - this means better code navigation, error-catching, and refactoring. I've also found the implicit project-first focus (as opposed to file-first) to be more practical for most things I work on.

I'm slowly learning the Android IDE. Text editors have the following advantages

- One config for all: no need to specify keybindings for each program, and other settings

- Similarly, multipurpose tool: a text editor can help with most of the programming languages out there, IDEs are generally tailored towards a specific bunch of languages and tools, with little variation possible

- Non-programming tasks: I'm doing an MA in linguistics, and plan to be a researcher; while coding is useful it's only a part of what my text editor helps me with (emacs, in my case, but true even for VSCod{ium,e})

- Can VCS configs along with other dotfiles

- Free software

- Deep customisability helps automate away repetitive tasks add some nifty useful features

- Keyboard first: many IDEs have plugins for this and even embedding but it's never as good as the real deal

Personally I like to pick the best tool for the job and I wouldn't really bother with Emacs for Android or Java or C# etc., but when working with many other environments, customisable text editors are pretty advantageous.

And over that most if not all features you list are possible at least in Emacs (IDK how well they are done in the Vim world but I bet they have some great tools for all that, nvim esp.).

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#348

Post by rcarmo »

earthscienceman wrote: post #125
rcarmo wrote: post #72

I've tried all of them, and still prefer vim because it's the least hassle to install/configure anywhere - my dotfile setup installs my plugins automatically, and I'm set. However, I do use VSCode extensively as well, largely because of the language servers. But sometimes it takes so long to start up (and nags me to do so many updates to itself and extensions) that I just toss the window aside and use a native Mac ed…

Emacs can also install your packages/plugins automagically via the wonderfully designed use-package combined with MELPA. It's a game changer when it comes to managing an emacs configuration, especially if you work across a range of servers. Just copy the .emacs, install use-package manually and you're off to the races with anything and everything you need. By the time I discovered use-package I couldn't believe that…

I used emacs for a while while I was in college, for everything (including reading mail) and gave up because I just didn't find the command keys efficient enough.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#349

Post by Slackwise »

cercatrova wrote: post #183
hollerith wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To read mail, I used (version 5 of) Kyle Jones's VM, but (out of my being too lazy to configure mail fetching and mail sending) switched to gmail.com about 6 years ago. I never embraced org mode because I didn't want to learn another few dozen keyboard shortcuts ("keys" in Emacs terminology). There are for example in org mode keyboard shortcuts for moving the current line up a line and down a line. Even before I saw…

I do something like this in VSCode as well, Markdown todo lists: - [ ] Task 1 - [ ] Task 1.1 - [x] Task 1.1.1 - [ ] Task 1.2 etc. In particular, I break down yearly goals into quarterly, monthly, weekly and daily, each another node in the tree getting increasingly more specific. It really helps understand the flow from the highest to the lowest levels of details. Only problem is if goals change midway, it's not propa…

I use https://quire.io to do similar. It's also 100% Markdown, and you can copy the list itself as Markdown to elsewhere.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#350

Post by Filligree »

axaxs wrote: post #291
no_wizard wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all highlights is a lot of choices and “do this don’t do that” kind of things I don’t like about the Linux Desktop environment, I don’t want to think about these kinds of things in my usage of a desktop. It’s a summation of everything I find lacking in the Linux desktop community

Sure, but there are a lot of distros out there that do these things for you. Solus Gnome is probably my favorite out of the box experience. It's basically pre-configured exactly how I tune Gnome myself.

I ended up trying Solus.

It turns out I can't install it, because the installer bundles an old version of the nouveau driver, the nouveau driver crashes on my hardware, they've deleted the nvidia driver package for the version of Solus that's on the ISO (along with every other package), and there's no terminal-mode installer or any other workaround.

If you want to install Solus, and the year-old installer doesn't work in GUI mode, then you're SOL.

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