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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#111

Post by dang »

voodootrucker wrote: post #65

Wow, why did this fall off the front page? There's no way it wasn't being upvoted sufficiently watching the flurry of initial comments... Was this discussion blocked? And if so, is there a particular policy it violated? This discussion seems extremely important right now. @dang can you elaborate?

We can't answer questions we don't see, and the only reliable way to get a message to us is hn@ycombinator.com. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. I only saw this one randomly.

Pilfer got it right. I've turned the penalty off now.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#112

Post by Consultant32452 »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I don't think there's a credible threat to civilization, but perhaps a credible threat to our prevailing thoughts on governance.

There is no good justification that the people of Los Angeles should have to live under the rules and cultural customs of Mobile Alabama. Nor should the people of Mobile Alabama be forced to live under the rules and cultural norms of Los Angeles. As long as we re forced to toggle back and forth between which group is forcing the other to live under their own preferences there cannot be peace.

The separation you are seeing is real, but it's not negative. The path forward is more freedom, perhaps even separation.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#113

Post by alwayseasy »

edbob wrote: post #105
lisper wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is "a credible existential threat to civilization" to you? For example: a delusional or demagogic leader who promulgates lies about the outcome of an election in order to fire up a mob and incite them to attempt to violently take over the seat of government of a country with nuclear weapons. Not that such a thing would ever actually happen. I guess I'm just a worrier.

What's the worst-case scenario if they had succeeded? That they take some people hostage and have a stand-off until the FBI takes them down? There was no path to them attaining any actual power. Their actions were violent and bad, but had no actual effect on anybody outside of D.C. That is not what I call an "existential threat". Again, you have to compare the downsides of free speech vs the downsides of censorship.…

The worst-case scenario is the end of democracy in the USA in the next 15 years.

If one side stays convinced the elections were fraudulent and Trump is a victim , it will cause a permanent shift in how Americans see their own democratic elections.

Historically, since democracy has existed, that vacuum is always filled by an authoritarian leader.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#114

Post by pmlnr »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

> But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place.

One hard truth: it would have been enough to look at European laws made after WWII, and adopt them in the US as well in the first place.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#115

Post by jmull »

ardy42 wrote: post #93
millzlane wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think free speech ends at specific threats or calls to violence. Call me the n word all you want. But if you threaten my life you should be stopped. Either by the police or by me. I think free speech is necessary, but not free speech to harass or threaten violence. Free speech including the vile and negative won't make the world a better place. Arguing against the bad ideas will. But I do not think it's the burden…

> I think free speech ends at specific threats or calls to violence. Call me the n word all you want. But if you threaten my life you should be stopped. Either by the police or by me. Then what about lies? The real problem of the last few years is that really blatant lies have been remarkably successful in the "marketplace of ideas" and quite hard to effectively argue against (if you disagree, try using facts and rea…

We do have some limits on lies. There are libel/slander laws.

These limits are usually very weak, though. They vary from place to place, but tend to have a high bar, are expensive to pursue, and have many exceptions.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#116

Post by joezydeco »

nixgeek wrote: post #8
andomar wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were refused by Amazon, Microsoft, Google and Cloudflare, what alternatives are there?

Oracle, IBM, Alibaba. On the smaller but still “millions of virtual machines” end of the scale: DigitalOcean, Vultr, Linode. Still have APIs and can give you instances in minutes. Hetzner and OVH also an option for the scale of infrastructure that Parler appears to require, although their “Dedicated Server” offerings (Bare Metal) often take 24-72 hours to deliver to customers. Or one of a thousand places to rent a ra…

Peter from The Pirate Bay recently commented on the Parler situation.

TLDR: what a bunch of lightweight crybabies...

https://twitter.com/brokep/status/1348194329005875203

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#117

Post by goatinaboat »

the_drunkard wrote: post #68
ogre_codes wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parler has hosted content no worse than Twitter or Facebook or thousands of other sites. Nonsense. Parler was created because Twitter and Facebook were moderating content. If Twitter and Facebook hadn't been moderating hate speech, Parler would not exist. Posting voices and content which is banned on Twitter and Facebook is the single unique "Feature" of Parler. Over the months, Amazon has been in contact with Parl…

> Parler was created because Twitter and Facebook were moderating content. > If Twitter and Facebook hadn't been moderating hate speech, Parler would not exist. I don't think it's fair to claim Parler was created because Twitter and Facebook moderate hate speech. For example, the Hunter Biden story was actively suppressed on both Twitter and Facebook, essentially confirming long-held beliefs that social media platfor…

For example, the Hunter Biden story was actively suppressed on both Twitter and Facebook, essentially confirming long-held beliefs that social media platforms curate based on political ideology.

I don’t think anyone can in good faith deny that if Don Trump Jr had allegedly done one-tenth of what Hunter Biden is accused of, the media would have it on 24/7 rotation.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#118

Post by caseysoftware »

lisper wrote: post #104
edbob wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "a credible existential threat to civilization" to you? The recent riots seem to be more than adequately handled through existing law enforcement procedures. Obviously the police can't prevent every crime, but in this case investigation and prosecution seems to be enough to remove bad actors. We know what the consequences of free speech are, and even if the downsides are amplified 1000x by its enemies, the do…

> What is "a credible existential threat to civilization" to you? For example: a delusional or demagogic leader who promulgates lies about the outcome of an election in order to fire up a mob and incite them to attempt to violently take over the seat of government of a country with nuclear weapons. Not that such a thing would ever actually happen. I guess I'm just a worrier.

> fire up a mob and incite them to attempt to violently take over the seat of government of a country with nuclear weapons

You know the buttons/switches/etc to launch missiles (nuclear or not) are not at the Speaker's podium in the House, right?

In fact, "taking over the seat of government" here was literally just that.. a physical seat. The US government applies authority in people via roles not via seating position.

Were they a bunch of assholes? Yes and they should be prosecuted as such.

Was it a "violent take over"? Not a chance.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#119

Post by shiftpgdn »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #20
shiftpgdn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are thousands of colo centers out there that will take your business. Sure you have to buy the hardware up front but in the long run it'll be less expensive. The scary part would be fiber/backbone providers denying you a connection.

Ultimately, this will come down to public vs. private rights. If infrastructure, no matter how vital, is privately funded, what rights are there vs infrastructure that is publicly funded. Further complications are infrastructure that is a mix of the two. Personally, I lean toward private infrastructure being able to set their own rules and if it’s public, then the public sets the rules. I am not sure when it gets to…

What about peering agreements? What happens when cogent gets de-peered because they host a website accused of thought crimes?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#120

Post by [deleted] »

ipsocannibal wrote: post #78
millzlane wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think free speech ends at specific threats or calls to violence. Call me the n word all you want. But if you threaten my life you should be stopped. Either by the police or by me. I think free speech is necessary, but not free speech to harass or threaten violence. Free speech including the vile and negative won't make the world a better place. Arguing against the bad ideas will. But I do not think it's the burden…

In this instance I don't think calls to violence are really the problem at hand. Specifically, what is the difference between getting on a box on a street corner and calling for the death of so and so and saying the same thing on the internet? The difference is the speed at which the message propagates and the breadth and targeting of the audience that hears it. The technology and its unregulated use are the problem…

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