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Update on an Employee Matter

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Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#261

Post by HarryHirsch »

ben_w wrote: post #259
HarryHirsch wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Github sure sounds like a lovely company to work for, and tone is set at the top.

So far as I’m concerned, how people and organisations react to their mistakes when they are revealed matters a lot more than the fact that they make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, improving in response to them is what matters.

Which of course implies that nothing will improve until the shitty state of affairs gains publicity. This isn't how it's supposed to work, you are not supposed to fuck up and then repent in public, you are supposed to get it right without putting on a show of public repentance.

Seriously, does anyone need to be told that the confederate flag or the thin-blue-line-flag-with-Punisher-logo are symbols of white supremacism? Who thinks that support of that is acceptable in the workplace?

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#262

Post by goldcd »

analyst74 wrote: post #213
dustinmoris wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> avoid making conservatives uncomfortable Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Euro…

Fun fact, in China, conservatism tend to be related to old-school, Mao-era communism, which is probably considered far-far-left extremists in the free world.

The extreme sides actually join together around the back.

Just the reasoning that tends to get a bit muddy - for race/country/flag/god/people. I think the line tends to be when somebody starts mentioning 'the enemy' - and points to some formerly-considered-random guy nearby.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#263

Post by itronitron »

ben_w wrote: post #259
HarryHirsch wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Github sure sounds like a lovely company to work for, and tone is set at the top.

So far as I’m concerned, how people and organisations react to their mistakes when they are revealed matters a lot more than the fact that they make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, improving in response to them is what matters.

GitHub HR is no stranger to mistakes.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#264

Post by jjkaczor »

pc86 wrote: post #157

It's a good thing Nat took the time to tell us that GitHub condemns the attack on the US Capitol. We might not know otherwise. I mean seriously, why do corporations feel the need to say this nonsense? Are we really at the point where a corporation needs to waste time to tell us "hey y'all, in case you weren't sure, we don't actually support an armed insurrection attempting to stop the democratic transfer of power, an…

...but, maybe some corporations do/did support them...

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/534564-mypillow-ceo-photog...

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#265

Post by ergocoder »

bmiller2 wrote: post #13

Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees... I can’t believe people talk like this on a work public channel.

Github seems like a toxic place to work.

"100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there?

I work in tech and have been trained to use appropriate languages and avoid generalization.

I don't doubt there are people who support nazis there. But how do you know all of them support nazis?

This person who said "nazis are about" is absolutely being inappropriate. Is it a fireable offense? I have no idea.

If someone said "looters are about" during BLM, they would be canceled so hard. (yes, many BLMs support looting, well, it's just property not people. Some even supports looting the shops who support BLM because protest must cause inconvenience! the worst strategy I've ever heard of)

At the current state, it would be better to forbid talking about politics at work because one side is given so much free pass to exaggerate and generalize.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#266

Post by sjs382 »

ergocoder wrote: post #265
bmiller2 wrote: post #13

Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees... I can’t believe people talk like this on a work public channel.

Github seems like a toxic place to work. "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? I work in tech and have been trained to use appropriate languages and avoid generalization. I don't doubt there are people who support nazis there. But how do you know all of them support nazis? This person who said "nazis are about" is absolutely being inappropriate. Is it a fireab…

> "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there?

This is misquoted. There is no "of" in the original chat. "100% Nazis were there" translates to something akin to "truth: Nazis were there."

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#267

Post by ergocoder »

sjs382 wrote: post #266
ergocoder wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github seems like a toxic place to work. "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? I work in tech and have been trained to use appropriate languages and avoid generalization. I don't doubt there are people who support nazis there. But how do you know all of them support nazis? This person who said "nazis are about" is absolutely being inappropriate. Is it a fireab…

> "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? This is misquoted. There is no "of" in the original chat. "100% Nazis were there" translates to something akin to "truth: Nazis were there."

Thank you for correcting me. I can drop that point (unfortunately, I can't edit/delete.)

I hope my point still stands though. "Nazis are about" is an inappropriate comment during this political climate. It would be similar to saying "looters are about" during the BLM movement.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#268

Post by YeBanKo »

ergocoder wrote: post #267
sjs382 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? This is misquoted. There is no "of" in the original chat. "100% Nazis were there" translates to something akin to "truth: Nazis were there."

Thank you for correcting me. I can drop that point (unfortunately, I can't edit/delete.) I hope my point still stands though. "Nazis are about" is an inappropriate comment during this political climate. It would be similar to saying "looters are about" during the BLM movement.

Why is it an inappropriate comment? It is factual. There are photos showing people that have Nazi symbols. One example is this guy in the “Camp Auschwitz” hoodie [1]. He also was present in a photo from the inside of Capitol, means he actively participated. There are more examples.

I had such a similar conversation with coworkers one time during lunch. I said that I had just seen a Nazi on a bike next to the office. One of my coworkers tried to argue, that not every biker was a Nazi and maybe I had jumped to conclusion too soon. Which of course is true, not every biker is a Nazi, but the one I’d seen had had a swastika and SS bolts tattooed on his shoulder.

And yes, there were looters during BML protests.

[1] https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/neo-nazis-among-protesters-who...

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#269

Post by YeBanKo »

btown wrote: post #79
bmiller2 wrote: post #13

Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees... I can’t believe people talk like this on a work public channel.

> I can't believe people talk like this on a work public channel. Not sure if you're referring to the instance of the egregious anti-Semitic joke (CW for that link, btw), or to the bulk of the communications, but for any who feel the latter, that any conversation involving Nazism is improper, I'd consider a counterpoint: We're in an industry where it's very easy for our work to be used for horrible things, where inde…

> The comment that states "you dont see 'commie' being dropped in the workplace nor should 'nazi,' it's just slandering" is the false equivalency of the century

That comment about slandering is a bs and a person making it is a hypocrite. There were people, whose clothes literally manifested that they were Nazis. Camp Auschwitz, 6MWE, there is no guesswork, they themselves declared that they are Nazis.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#270

Post by ergocoder »

YeBanKo wrote: post #268
ergocoder wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for correcting me. I can drop that point (unfortunately, I can't edit/delete.) I hope my point still stands though. "Nazis are about" is an inappropriate comment during this political climate. It would be similar to saying "looters are about" during the BLM movement.

Why is it an inappropriate comment? It is factual. There are photos showing people that have Nazi symbols. One example is this guy in the “Camp Auschwitz” hoodie [1]. He also was present in a photo from the inside of Capitol, means he actively participated. There are more examples. I had such a similar conversation with coworkers one time during lunch. I said that I had just seen a Nazi on a bike next to the office.…

> Why is it an inappropriate comment?

This is the same as saying "Stay safe homies looters are about", or "Stay safe homies black people are about". The tone is distasteful, to say the least.

Also, it's a generalization that is harmful since nazism is a strong accusation. When accusing someone with things like this, you should be specific.

As an improvement, he should have used a more precise language in a sensitive issue like this like "Stay safe. There are some nazis in the protest, and the situation might be escalated to violence.". To be honest, this is like social skill 101.

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