Earlier quoted context omitted.
- paying for services for people who don't have/can't afford insurance. - medical malpractice insurance -> legal system - big pharma/med devices industry
Plus - Gold plating everything to avoid getting sued. - Inflated medical school costs - the price of a huge bureaucracy for billing people, chasing them, disputing it, agreeing rates with insurers, renegotiating rates with insurers, applying the right discounts, billing a dozen different state and federal programs for various bits, those being disputed, managing all that etc.
Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
51–60 of 389 posts
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe any medical professional in Germany has wage exceeding 150k EUR yearly after taxes - doctors in the US sometimes have multiples of that, coincidentally 5x to 10x more is not unusual.
I’m sure German doctors don’t have oodles of student debt too.
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#53Is there a Walmart for medical procedures? A jiffy-lube?
Closest thing is Surgery Center of Oklahoma, which does not deal with insurance and has an easily accessible public price list on the web site. https://surgerycenterok.com/about/
https://www.econtalk.org/keith-smith-on-free-market-health-c...
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#54It's always fascinating to see that even compared to prices you pay as a self-paying patient in Germany (which are already 1.5x - 2x higher than what the "public" insurances, ie. 85% of the population, pay for the same procedures), the prices in the US are about 5x to 10x higher. The standard of care seems to be quite comparable if you look at outcomes, so there must be huge inefficiences in the American system (doct…
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#55This was a big accomplishment of the Trump admin. Regardless of what your other opinions of his administration are, healthcare pricing transparency in the US is a very important step forward to improving the healthcare situation there. Source (one of many): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-drugs/white-hou...
Came here to post the same. My guess is he will go down as the worst president in US history, but even a terrible administration can have a few noteworthy accomplishments. This and the airline reforms (1) will probably be remembered as the best things that came out of the Trump administration. 1: https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/president-trump-just-sign...
However, what on earth has this got to do with aviation?!
> authorizes $1.68 billion for relief for Hurricane Florence, which hit the Carolinas last month;
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're making a lot of assumptions here that an out-of-country hospital would be of questionable quality and not have medical malpractice laws. Just because other countries medical & legal systems are different than the US doesn't mean they are inferior.
The GP was talking about losing your ability sue for malpractice not implying that every other country has inferior medical or legal care. A country can have a fine legal system for locals that's difficult or prohibitively expensive to access for non-citizens living outside the country.
All the Americans end up going to my competitor, who is currently in the midst of three lawsuits which will probably sink the company. Two of the lawsuits are with clients I turned away simply because they looked likely to sue!
You can bet that as an American, you will pay substantially more than a local for many services simply because Americans have a reputation for this sort of stuff, and local businesses don't want to take the risk.
I really wish there was some kind of certificate saying "I have never set foot in a courtroom, threatened legal action, or hired a lawyer".
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you enlighten me and name some of those things? Not things he said, but things he did according to you.
These are all well documented: https://www.indy100.com/news/donald-trump-bad-things-list-b1... There are 55 things on the list. There’s a mixture of things he said and things he did. As president, his words have real consequences, so drawing the line at “things he said” is strange.
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
In 2015 I did several months of due diligence in this market - price comparison for diagnostic imaging - before concluding that it wasn't feasible to build the product we wanted to build. This new law provides the data that we were unable to access (at scale) on our own. From the data we did get our hands on, I remember seeing price differences like $200 vs $4k for the exact same procedure. The low cost provider was…
For folks who don’t believe in universal medical coverage, this is part of the reason why it’s so inefficient for it not to exist. The uninsured person going to the hospital at 1AM that requires an MRI because slipped a disc in their back still ends up getting that MRI. When they fail to pay that bill, which would be 5%-10% of their annual earnings, we all still pay for it. We just decided to layer in debt collection…
What I think would be best though, is to eliminate medicare/medicaid, hand people cash, and get out of the way.
The high-order problem with medicine isn't coverage or insurance. It's price. There are only two ways to get price under control: meaningful competition, or government price controls (e.g. single payer). Single payer would end up like public schools: one choice for everyone, probably OK quality, but not great.
I think we could do so much more here if we just created a cash market and handed people money. It's what Singapore does. It would let doctors compete on -- even discover -- what actually matters to consumers -- wait times, when procedures take place, even how comfortable the office is. I would much rather have a market with choice and variety than one that straitjackets everyone into a one-size-fits-all system that might work for some but probably won't for others.
I know people are going to worry about rare (expensive) conditions not being covered, and this is indeed a problem. I don't have an answer to this. One good thing about competition though, is that it drives innovation. Provider prices will absolutely be set based on what they know people can pay. If people can't pay as much, the only thing for them to do is drop prices.
It's funny. In a community where people are so focused on innovation, and startups, and choice, I see a lot of support for a national single-payer scheme. I would much rather take the collective energies of this community and apply them to innovation in this market, with meaningful choice and competition. Medicine needs more of a startup mindset. And for those roasting me about how it's different/dangerous/risky: what we have today is KILLING us, economically.
Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#59Re: Show HN: Compare prices that US hospitals charge patients, insurance companies
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
For folks who don’t believe in universal medical coverage, this is part of the reason why it’s so inefficient for it not to exist. The uninsured person going to the hospital at 1AM that requires an MRI because slipped a disc in their back still ends up getting that MRI. When they fail to pay that bill, which would be 5%-10% of their annual earnings, we all still pay for it. We just decided to layer in debt collection…
My takeaway from all that research was the same. Almost everyone benefits from universal coverage but the system has to incentivize patients to shop around for the optimal balance of price, quality, and convenience. This can be accomplished with an annual deductible of a few thousand dollars perhaps capped at a % of income. Without this incentive, costs skyrocket. Price transparency is a pre-requisite without which c…
Pharma companies realized and started giving copay vouchers (still charge insurance more, but short circuit the patient incentive). When that loophole got tighter they formed charitable foundations to give the vouchers instead.
I'm not disagreeing with your points, per se. It's just amazing what entrenched interests can manage.