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The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

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Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#311

Post by mbrodersen »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #220
emptysongglass wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people are moving Linux --> Windows. At the company I work for everything is native to Linux--I am floored by the number of interns we get who are using Windows (it's all of them). We have an intake script for getting them up on WSL2 with our stack on top but man these graduates are CompSci people and they did 4 plus years of CompSci using Windows? I can only imagine the pain. Or rather, I know…

That's why I work at a place where devs are basically required to use Linux. It's a great filter and training mechanism.

I work at a place where developers have no problem switching between different OS’es. And I would not hire and prefer to not work with developers who refuse to work on anything but a specific OS.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#313

Post by irrational »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #101
irrational wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have any values that would affect the cereal I buy. I’m not even sure what values would come into play. I don’t buy cereal that isn’t magically delicious? I just buy whatever is cheapest. Is not having much money a value? Other than Richard Stallman, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone talk about how their personal values determine what software they will use. If I can afford it (free is better!) and it does…

Yes, lowest cost is a value. But there are probably 5 or 6 cereals at the lowest price point at your local grocery store. Which one do you pick, and why? Whatever the answer is, reveals your values. (Even "the one at eye level" reveals the value of minimum energy expenditure) > If I can afford it (free is better!) and it does the job, I use it. OK so one value is clear. But there are literally tens of software option…

>Which one do you pick, and why?

Easy. Whichever one has the most chocolate. All the cheap ones have a lot of chocolate? Buy them all! You can never have enough chocolate flavored cereal.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#314

Post by irrational »

einpoklum wrote: post #151
irrational wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have any values that would affect the cereal I buy. I’m not even sure what values would come into play. I don’t buy cereal that isn’t magically delicious? I just buy whatever is cheapest. Is not having much money a value? Other than Richard Stallman, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone talk about how their personal values determine what software they will use. If I can afford it (free is better!) and it does…

> I don’t have any values that would affect the cereal I buy. * Would you buy cereal made by slaves? * Would you not prefer cereal made by a small cooperative of people you know, over something made by BigCorp inc. ? etc.

> Would you buy cereal made by slaves?

No, but I don't know which cereal is made by slaves and which isn't. Maybe none of them are.

> Would you not prefer cereal made by a small cooperative of people you know, over something made by BigCorp inc. ?

No. I have nothing against BigCorp.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#315

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

omaranto wrote: post #105
2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to many I am a relatively new emacs user, back when I began programming I let myself get intimidated by the scary stories told about Emacs and Vim configuration. Turns out a huge emacs configuration is not needed, in fact I notice my emacs config actually started to become smaller over the recent times. It's hard to express how much I value emacs now and the only regret I have is that I did not give it a cha…

Evil is rarely mentioned? I guess we hang out in different parts of the internet.

Compared to the uncountable amount of "Emacs vs. Vim" discussions? Yes, absolutely. And when someone talks about getting a vim workflow in emacs they likely only mention a big framework like Spacemacs...

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#316

Post by himujjal »

atweiden wrote: post #249

I'm more excited about Onivim [1] than I am about Neovim making Lua a first-class language for writing plugins. [1]: Onivim is a VSCode/Vim hybrid in the works ( https://onivim.io/ )

Still kinda restrictive with its license. Still uses NodeJS under its hood. 60+mb in size

I am surprised nobody talked about https://github.com/rxi/lite

Its a really simple Editor. I have recently started working on it. Not very feature rich, but gets the job done. Lua as plugins are also a plus

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#317

Post by himujjal »

yudlejoza wrote: post #274
caymanjim wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim 8 and neovim don't have any major differences. Even as a decades-long Vim power user, I can use either. neovim deserves credit for stimulating Bram to accept changes, though. Most notably Vim 8's support for async plugins. I don't think Vim 8 ever would have happened without neovim.

Well after reading your comment, I thought maybe the big win for neovim might be reduced (code-size) complexity. So I checked the code sizes for latest versions of both vim and neovim (from github): - vim is at 900k (717k without po files) - neovim is at 677k (562k without po files) Savings of only 25% of code size is unfortunate. It's even worse if we ignore the po data files (only 22%). I would like to see a fully-…

github.com/rxi/lite-editor

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#318

Post by bjoli »

pedrocr wrote: post #14

Are powerful editors really that much of a force multiplier? My career path has pulled me from a CS degree into loosely related fields so I mostly only code as a hobby. I end up using basic editors (e.g., gedit) and reaching for grep/sed/etc when I need something fancy. Is having that power in the editor versus the command line that much of an advantage?

I don't believe so. I am an Emacs user and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I know people that are increadible productive using just about anything.

When writing well-contained code where I can easily understand external dependencies I could just as well use notepad. Emacs shines when I want macros or multiple cursors, interactive development (I am a schemer) at just general code navigation. When doing things that are not scheme I could probably edit code just fine in just about any editor.

The only things I really miss in other editors (probably because I never looked) are the features for jumping around. I can jump to a definition (across files) in 1s which sets a "mark" from the place I left. Jumping back takes less than a second. I could of course do it, but it was more involved and I couldn't do it without having to think and let go of what was in my mind at the time.

Anyway, you grow into your editing style. A friend told me he would likely get seizures by developing like me.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#320

Post by thotsBgone »

sedev wrote: post #55
submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

From a recent HN discussion, I learned that emacs has had a sampling profiler built in — not on MELPA or something, first-party! — since about 2013. How many widely-used applications these days contain a facility for asking "why is the command I just issued executing slowly?" and for _doing something about it?_ As far as I'm concerned, that's now table stakes for a programming environment: you should be able to not j…

To be fair, of all of the editors I've used, emacs is the slowest and needs a profiler the most.
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