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HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

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Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#61

Post by adamredwoods »

jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Luckily we do have freedom to quit and change our jobs, whereas feudal serfdom was essentially trapped by debt and servitude. The history of the ever-evolving common worker is fascinating! How far we've come!

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#63

Post by tehjoker »

MattGaiser wrote: post #33
jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Unlike the serf, I can go find another Lord. I can pit the lords against each other for a better deal. I can try and become my own lord. HR has a lot fewer tools than the inquisition. Fear of lawsuits reduces their toolkit even further.

What if we tried to make it so there were no lords? Just a thought.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#64

Post by filmgirlcw »

HR is definitely not your friend. I’ve had exactly one good “real” HR person in my career, and she was forced out after our company was acquired, and we didn’t even get a replacement for months on end, despite our acquirer being a multi-billion dollar company. There are some people in HR that I know and like, but I’m acutely aware that I am merely a cog in the system and that HR works for the company, not for me.

As a general rule, I record all conversations with HR. I’ve never had to use the recordings, but if a third-party isn’t there, I'm protecting myself, period. I no longer live in a one-party consent state, so that means informing HR in advance that I’ll be recording, so if you’re in the US, check your local laws before proceeding.

HR has an important role and I don’t discount what that role is, but it exists to protect the company, not the employee. And knowing that is crucial to getting the best experience out of HR.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#65

Post by charlesu »

umvi wrote: post #47
charlesu wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outside of work I certainly live in a free society. I can walk up to a rich person ("a lord") and insult him to his face and nothing will happen. If you really think that’s true, do it on camera. Upload it to YouTube. Let it go viral. See something happens.

Like this you mean? https://youtu.be/FF-tKLISfPE

That was 1997 at a conference. There was no social media or cancel culture.

My point is that you can be fired for insulting the wrong rich or the wrong anybody if it’s caught on camera and gets enough views and it brings shame to your lord. You’re not free when you clock out or leave the office. As an employee, you’re a representative of your company 24/7 whether you like it or not.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#66

Post by thisiscorrect »

tehjoker wrote: post #63
MattGaiser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the serf, I can go find another Lord. I can pit the lords against each other for a better deal. I can try and become my own lord. HR has a lot fewer tools than the inquisition. Fear of lawsuits reduces their toolkit even further.

What if we tried to make it so there were no lords? Just a thought.

Others in recent history have tried this. Do we know how it went for them?

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#67

Post by galaxyLogic »

jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Democracy exists or should exist outside the companies, creating the laws that constrain contract law.

Companies are basically one person (at the top) trading money for work with the people doing what they are paid for. The person doing the work could of course say hey I don't want to do this job I want to do something else instead but I want you to still pay me the same amount, or more. That wouldn't really be about democracy would it?

Employee protection laws are a different matter and are possible because we live in a democratic society, if we do.

One huge step towards democracy would be universal healthcare, which would make it easier for people to quit the job they don't think they should be doing.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#68

Post by toolz »

tehjoker wrote: post #63
MattGaiser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the serf, I can go find another Lord. I can pit the lords against each other for a better deal. I can try and become my own lord. HR has a lot fewer tools than the inquisition. Fear of lawsuits reduces their toolkit even further.

What if we tried to make it so there were no lords? Just a thought.

Is someone really your "lord" if you can just choose for them not to be your "lord" and freely choose for them to be your "lord" if they compensate you well enough for your liking? I'd suggest we already don't have lords and the analogy doesn't really hold.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#69

Post by toolz »

bsder wrote: post #50
MattGaiser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the serf, I can go find another Lord. I can pit the lords against each other for a better deal. I can try and become my own lord. HR has a lot fewer tools than the inquisition. Fear of lawsuits reduces their toolkit even further.

This is highly dependent upon your field. You have never been unlucky enough to be trained in a field that then died out.

I'll agree that edge cases can prevent anything from being reasonable or fair, but we can't let perfect be the enemy of good here. I think we're making progress every day towards enabling everyone to have more choice (on average, obviously some days have major setbacks for humanity).

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#70

Post by NikolaNovak »

Overall agree, but it IS company/institution specific.

In all companies I personally worked on, HR is... neutralish at best in good times, occasionally actively useless, but always company-focused.

In my wife's massive north american big-box retailer company though... I am ASTONISHED how friendly, involved, helpful, caring, HR managers are, from policy, culture, as well as reasonable sample of individuals. I still think it's not the norm, but it was a pleasant surprise how supportive HR can be.

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