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EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

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Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#21

Post by maxerickson »

_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

There's no mechanism to force a private business to do a thing and the comparison you reach for is totalitarianism. It's incoherent.

There probably should be a serious discussion about how access to platforms is mediated, but there's a pretty big chance that you end up asking for an expansion of government powers if you say the companies aren't free to do what they want anymore.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#22

Post by emptysongglass »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #15

Curious how Doctorow justifies the practice of disemvoweling, a passive aggressive form of censorship that boing boing used to silence people they didn't agree with but who weren't violating the terms of service of the site. Also wonder how all of this fits in the depersoning of Violet Blue from boing boing.

This actually happened to me way back in the day when I called out Doctorow on Boing Boing for his relentless use of the platform as a soapbox for self-promotion.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#23

Post by xhkkffbf »

emptysongglass wrote: post #22
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #15

Curious how Doctorow justifies the practice of disemvoweling, a passive aggressive form of censorship that boing boing used to silence people they didn't agree with but who weren't violating the terms of service of the site. Also wonder how all of this fits in the depersoning of Violet Blue from boing boing.

This actually happened to me way back in the day when I called out Doctorow on Boing Boing for his relentless use of the platform as a soapbox for self-promotion.

He can be very weaselly on these things. It's nice that he hasn't lost his general support for free speech -- as some people have done all too willingly. But the disemvoweling is definitely born of fascist impulses.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#24

Post by benibela »

permille42 wrote: post #19
inglor_cz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need even electricity. People lived without power for thousands of generations and some still live like that. It still would not be fine if there was a class of outcasts defined by execs of power distribution companies on whim. The "you do not need" standard is a tricky one. Modern civilization is built around a lot of network-like structures. Getting kicked off them is a kind of punishment. We generally h…

I would be delighted to be banned from all technology for eternity. I would wear the ban like a badge of honor and devote my life to the advancement of something more noble such as mathematics.

Imagine living in a monastery with no technology besides bolt, chord, and sphere

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#25

Post by quantified »

anothernewdude wrote: post #10
quantified wrote: post #6

Let’s note that while a bar has to allow the public entry, if your speech or actions inside the bar starts a fight, they can bounce you. No written terms of service needed. Just threatening the bartender might be enough. People might be deplatformed, but they can still write, publish anywhere that will accept their writing, call people on the phone... do anything they could do in the year 1999, 207 years after the Co…

Bars do not have to allow the public entry, indeed that's half the work of bouncers.

You’re right, I was thinking of even neighborhood bars. Along those lines, is it not the case that Twitter, FB and all other social-media sites could institute user vetting and behave more like a club? Some services are invite-only already. Obviously changes the business model, just pointing out the perfect legality.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#26

Post by rufus_foreman »

_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

>> Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips?

Correct. DIY.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#27

Post by permille42 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #20
permille42 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be delighted to be banned from all technology for eternity. I would wear the ban like a badge of honor and devote my life to the advancement of something more noble such as mathematics.

If you are the kind of talent that can make significant contributions alone, that is a viable (and enviable) way of life. But if you need to co-operate, that is really hard to do without tech. I used to do some work in algebra 20 years ago and mathematicians were one of the first branches to network extensively. It happens all too often that the other person who is interested and knowledgeable about the same arcane p…

As a child I took math books to bed with me.

I only got a single question wrong on the math portion of the SAT, and frankly SAT math is extremely easy. I just wasn't taking it seriously enough.

I took Calculus my first semester and scored over 98 on every test. No one else in the class scored above 80 on any of the tests. The teacher was dumbfounded.

I, of course, have a degree in mathematics... Undergrad math was... boring.

The only reason I didn't continue down the path of high level math is because it isn't profitable. It is also hell on the mind. Few understand that but it is very easy to get lost in a world of math if you are good enough at it. It consumes your entire mind. It is somewhat beautiful in that way, but doesn't lead to one become very balanced as an individual.

Cooperation is for pussies. Those who make the biggest difference in history are those who give zero shits about anyone else and devote their lives to furthering what they pursue. Very few teams can hold a candle to a dedicated prodigy.

There are these things called books. There are tons of them. They hold far more useful information that can be absorbed very rapidly compared to talking to people. Communicating with people live is... slow... tedious... and unrewarding.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#28

Post by permille42 »

benibela wrote: post #24
permille42 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be delighted to be banned from all technology for eternity. I would wear the ban like a badge of honor and devote my life to the advancement of something more noble such as mathematics.

Imagine living in a monastery with no technology besides bolt, chord, and sphere

A true visionary does not require technology, or at least definitely not computers.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#29

Post by typenil »

maxerickson wrote: post #21
_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

There's no mechanism to force a private business to do a thing and the comparison you reach for is totalitarianism. It's incoherent. There probably should be a serious discussion about how access to platforms is mediated, but there's a pretty big chance that you end up asking for an expansion of government powers if you say the companies aren't free to do what they want anymore.

If the US antitrust machine hadn't been asleep at the wheel for a couple decades, it wouldn't be a problem.

"There's no mechanism to force a private business to do a thing" - but bakeries have to make cakes for gay weddings - which I'm not opposed to.

If the vast majority of tech companies are based in the echo chamber of Silicon Valley, and they're going to ban any thought that falls outside of that narrow range, then political views need to be the next protected class.

Yes. An expansion of government powers. An added protected class. Or antitrust can come out of hibernation. Either way.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#30

Post by typenil »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #26
_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

>> Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? Correct. DIY.

Yeah, let's forget that taxpayers paid for the internet and so much of the internet infrastructure in US. But it's cool to cut off the people who subsidized it.
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