Toxic positivity does more harm than good • Hacker News Board

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#291

Post by stjohnswarts » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #225

stjohnswarts wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a personal issue though. I generally know if I'm doing a good job or being a load, and I don't look to external support or denial of that. I prefer regular work reviews but I don't need to hear it all the time. People are people and quite varied, some will think you're doing a great job and never say a thing, others prefer to be "positive" and lay it on a bit thick. When I want an honest evaluation I…

>I generally know if I'm doing a good job Could you elaborate? I would agree that random praise from a manager is not an especially good way to evaluate how well one is doing. But to me, "doing a good job" inherently depends on things that aren't purely determined by introspection. Here's a scenario for example: I do things for people, that are well received, my manager talks to other people, and it leads to people o…

There is always feedback. In general I judge my performance about how well I do compared to my coworkers in terms of output and what I know about my industry and what is "normal". I'm not the legendary 10x coder/engineer but I'm pretty good I think, in particular based on what I've done vs other people in terms of output and general reaction from peers (who i trust more on feedback than managers). I agree quite often "nice managers" will overdo it on praise, but there are other signs. You're not going to figure it out in a couple weeks, but I don't see how one can't get a general impression over a few months.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#292

Post by bavent » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 6:06 AM UTC

alexchamberlain wrote: post #116

bavent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My work effectively does. "Points" we can redeem for physical goods or trips.

Isn't that a little patronising?

Kind of. It also creates a weird obligation to reward coworkers for things, since have a budget of points to give out as well.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#293

Post by danielscrubs » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #182

bittercynic wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American here. I think many of us are kind of socially unmoored, and actually don't know how to take a neutral tone, and get anxious when someone takes a neutral tone with us. Almost like we're so insecure that we need constant positive feedback/reassurance that we're in a friendly situation. I've been around this my whole life and haven't gotten used to it, but I do the overly friendly act when it seems that people…

Americans aren't socially unmoored. We come from a society where people smile as a matter of being polite. People everywhere have to learn social signals and ours happen to involve smiling as a matter of course. This thread is pretty irritating for being kind of clueless to the reality that every culture on earth is going to have trappings like this and the alleged stoicism of Russia and Germany are no exception. (Th…

I don’t think it has anything to do with smiling, go ahead and smile. At least with the russians I’ve spent time with, it just takes some time before people open up.

Don’t ask a question and completely ignore the answer.

Don’t give platitudes when they could spend some effort and saying what a team member did well. It’s the same in dating, don’t tell someone they are beautiful, go the extra mile.

At least I think this is what people mean by “fake” but I’m not sure.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#294

Post by danielscrubs » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 12:40 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #262

Bayart wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But just a general casual lunch or dinner you're just not going to get the same quality of service as you do in North America. That's just circling back to North America and Continental Europe having diametrically opposed notions of what good service means and what social interactions are desirable. At the risk of sounding like a prick, a good staff member here is someone who makes themselves completely invisible fr…

Meanwhile, coming from the other side, I would love if I can get a waiter to discuss something else I need (more mayo, a napkin, etc) without feeling like I need to either wait for half my meal, yell across the restuarant, or go wander through looking for it. You went out into public to have a meal, why are you expecting privacy? If you wanted privacy, get takeout and eat at home.

I’d assume most eat out because they want to meet friends without hassle and experience the chefs food piping hot.

Seeking eye contact with the waiter isn’t that inconvenient either...

But for me I have very happy memories of talking with waiters in mom and pop restaurants, at the same time I do feel tipping increases the incentive to talk with customers so... it comes back to honesty, do you really want to talk or does it JUST increase the probability of tipping?

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#295

Post by kayodelycaon » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

tasuki wrote: post #290

kayodelycaon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is toxic positivity, but I don't think this article is talking about it. I'll give you an example. "Don't worry, it'll get better." People genuinely believe that and for many things, it's true. For someone with a chronic and severe mental illness with no known cure? We're sick of hearing it. There is no better for me. I'll never be completely free of suicidal thoughts or medication side-effects. I will neve…

> "Don't worry, it'll get better." I think people might say this so as to make themselves feel better. Or perhaps it's a (bad) shortcut for "oh that sucks, I hope it will get better". > I'll never be completely free of suicidal thoughts or medication side-effects. I will never be free from degree of pain and suffering many people don't understand. I'm one of the people who don't understand, but I think there is at le…

> I think there is at least some distant theoretical possibility it will get better?

Not likely. Our understanding of mental health is still extremely primitive.

Bipolar gets worse over time, not better. Medication can stop it from getting worse, but it is far from a cure.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#296

Post by erikpukinskis » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

bitcharmer wrote: post #160

erikpukinskis wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are at extremely elevated risks of every health disease That's factually inaccurate. > It's actually really terrible for the state and for society to normalize this I don't believe there is any science to back this assertion up. It's an interesting hypothesis, but I doubt it's true. > think this lesser form of "toxic positivity" inspires complacency and a general victim mentality Actually, the opposite is true.…

> I'd be interested if you have seen evidence that shame increases weight loss in obese people? GP comment doesn't claim that. You're just making this up. It's a scientific fact obesity is a health risk. What is the point in denying that?

Yes it does. GP says we should make people publicly feel that it’s not OK to not want to change their body. That’s shame.

I’m not debating what’s healthy, I’m debating what we consider “ok”.

“Obesity is a health risk” is a fact indeed. “All health risks are not ok” is not a scientific fact.